Top Bar Hive

[jeff4051]

Am thinking about building one of these, have plenty of scrap wood, and I enjoy a new project, (have built a national) am thinking of national frame size approx. 4-5 ft long. Would you start the frames to one side and then extend or would you start from centre and extend both ways. Also if I wanted to make a QE what size drill bit should I use.

 

[waverider]

You may wish to post this on the relevant section; 'DIY Hive construction and plans and tools.'

May get an answer sooner.

 

[jeff4051]

ooops sorry

 

[Brosville]

frames? - the main idea of a top bar hive is to just give the bees a top bar to build from (the name is a bit of a giveaway). Most TBH users don't use a QE...........

 

[jeff4051]

I was just thinking if I made the hive the same size as a standard I could buy a nuc and place the frames straight in, supply top frames by the side, when the colony was strong the last few frames would have a QE between them for my honey??? or am I talking bollu**s.

 

[Brosville]

It's certainly possible - nothing is set in stone, so probably worth having a bash and see how you get on - you'd end up with a "hybrid" hive which may well work for you......
ps, if you use a "centre" entrance, start from the middle, if you use an end entrance, start from the end opposite to that of the entrance..........

 

[jeff4051]

I think it would work, if I made it 4-6 ft long I could put a false wall until the colony was strong enough, also a frame with syrup at the end, could also put supers on top if the overcrowded, my mind is racing.

 

[Mellifera397]

I think ratcatcher has a 'hybrid' hive and he has some videos on youtube. he might be along in a bit.

M

 

[jeff4051]

Cheers, I like planning and drawing plans then building, I think it could work, not for profit but for the bees and my self satisfaction. Hope he puts his video up looking forward to that.

 

[Little John]

Am thinking about building one of these, have plenty of scrap wood, and I enjoy a new project, (have built a national) am thinking of national frame size approx. 4-5 ft long. Would you start the frames to one side and then extend or would you start from centre and extend both ways. Also if I wanted to make a QE what size drill bit should I use.

Best source for this kind of info:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm

What you're talking about is a so-called 'Tanzanian' TBH, but sized to take frames. 'Tis already done, and very successfully. Also called 'long hives' or 'long deep hives'.

You can run these hives frameless, or framed - with or without foundation. Easy enough to super if you want to.

Always start a long hive at one end - that way the bees know where to put their stores - and where to find them, later !
If you should have an entrance at the centre of the hive - then put a partition board (for some reason called a 'follower board', dunno why ...) to one side of the entrance, so the bees know where to start from - i.e. where the 'front' of the nest is. (they build brood at the front, with stores going at the back)

Allowing them to build in both directions at once causes confusion, and can result in them consuming all their stores at one end, then not being able to physically get to the second lot of stores at t'other end, especially if clustered.

LJ

 

[jeff4051]

Thank you I have a plan all ready for construction, it a bit futuristic, but looking forward to the end result. Have a spare hive incase my plan goes horribly wrong. My last thread about our hive first inspection is going very well, the hive was struggling thro winter and spring but its all all going well now. All we need is a bit more nice warm weather????????

 

[oliver90owner]

ratcatcher ... he might be along in a bit.


Last activity: 23rd April 2013 03:50 PM

Either gone on hols or living in his new wood?

 

[Mellifera397]

It doesn't really matter as the videos are up on youtube.

[ame="http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li9obrnaRZE"]http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li9obrnaRZE[/ame]

Hope this helps.

M

 

[pargyle]

Its a tried and tested type of hive ... I've built two now. You might consider some additions:

Mesh floor with a tray underneath it - useful for measuring Varroa drop. You would need to make it detachable so that you could get to it without disturbing the bees. My tray slides out - it's in a compartment under the mesh floor.

Adjustable ventilation - I have a series of holes drilled in the hive sides above the mesh floor that can be sealed with corks to adjust the level of ventilation.

A periscope entrance ... you really don't want an entrance at the top of the hive as it will allow unnecessary heat loss. If you use a periscope entrance you have the benefit of the bees coming in at the top of the hive (and avoiding varroa dropping onto them from above) without the downside of excessive heat loss.

Insulation ... I have a double skin of timber on the sides of the hive (it's actually made mainly of untreated pallet wood) with a 30mm layer of HD polystyrene sandwiched between the two layers of timber.

You could have three entrances in the hive ... one central and one at the end of the side and one at the opposite end of the hive but on the other side. This is useful if you want to do an AS without a second hive. Clearly, when they are not in use the 'spare' entrances need to be sealed up (corks ?)

You are better off with two follower boards and the colony started off in the middle of the hive with a follower board either side. You can then expand the available area of the hive in the direction that the bees decide they are going to go. When you close the hive down for winter just make sure that you rearrange the top bars so that the brood is at one end so that they have to work their way through the stores - otherwise they can get separated from the stores and starve.

If you go down the frames route (effectively you are then building a 'Dartington' style hive - look it up on the internet) then you need to pay close attention to the dimensions to allow the correct bee space.

I wouldn't both with supers - you should find that a 4' hive will provide more than enough room for the colony and stores - you won't get as much honey out of a top bar but most TBH exponents are hobby beekeepers and not really in it for maximum honey production.

In view of the dreadful weather over the last two or thr ee years I would make the roof gabled so that you can add a feeder or use fondant on top of the bars. Again, I'veput some additional insulation in the roof as well.

Lastly, you'll find it's a heavy hive so get it located where you want it before you add the bees and they start building comb and storing honey - it will be a two man job if you want to move it once the colony is etablished.

So ... there's a bit more for you to think about - good luck with your project - you're not actually inventing anything that has not been done before.... Ratchatcher is still around and he's been running hives like you are proposing for a couple of years - his videos on Youtube will give you some idea of what it's like.

 

[jeff4051]

Thank you for the info very helpful, my mind was racing ahead of it,need to slow it down. You mentioned fondant on top bar? inside or on top, looking at videos no bees when lid opened.

 

[madasafish]

ratcatcher ... he might be along in a bit.


Last activity: 23rd April 2013 03:50 PM

Either gone on hols or living in his new wood?

Appears to have lost all his TBH bees overwinter - . http://tinyurl.com/d5v9cdc

 

[pargyle]

Thank you for the info very helpful, my mind was racing ahead of it,need to slow it down. You mentioned fondant on top bar? inside or on top, looking at videos no bees when lid opened.

A Top Bar Hive just has top bars in it - they don't have any bee space between the top bars (unlike framed hives). The bees can't actually move above the top bars, so you won't see any bees above the bars until you start taking bars out for inspection.

If you are intending using conventional frames then you really need to put a crown board above them as otherwise you will probably find the bees build in the roof space as well.

My comment about fondant was based on the fact that you were intending using frames in your hive - in which case you can feed with fondant as you would in a conventional framed hive - with fondant placed on top of the frames. Clearly, if you have a 'proper' top bar hive this is not possible and you have to have other arrangements in place for the occasions when you may need to feed your colony. There are lots of options for this ..

Ratcatchers hives are a bit unusual as he uses frames under top bars that butt up (as in a 'proper' top bar hive). His idea is that the frames support the comb better and make inspections easier ... there is also some evidence that there is less attachment of comb to the sides of the hive when frames (or sometime just side bars) are used.

 

[pargyle]

Appears to have lost all his TBH bees overwinter - . http://tinyurl.com/d5v9cdc

Only one of them apparently.

 

[pargyle]

Thank you for the info very helpful, my mind was racing ahead of it,need to slow it down. You mentioned fondant on top bar? inside or on top, looking at videos no bees when lid opened.

This appears to be the Rolls Royce of all Top Bar Hives ... some nice features though - I like the hinged lid and the see through periscope entrance with a closeable cover.

http://www.highgroveshop.com/new-products/top-bar-bee-hive/c-gar00571/

The price ... well, way beyond my means but it's got Royal approval so what do you expect ?

 

[madasafish]

This appears to be the Rolls Royce of all Top Bar Hives ... some nice features though - I like the hinged lid and the see through periscope entrance with a closeable cover.

http://www.highgroveshop.com/new-products/top-bar-bee-hive/c-gar00571/

The price ... well, way beyond my means but it's got Royal approval so what do you expect ?

Whilst I have hinged lids on 3 out of 4 of my larger TBHs , I like the hinge on that one and shall copy it on my last.

I note the lack of insulation(?)....so not very green?