Top and bottom bee space

[E&MBees]

I don’t want to start another bun fight, but why do some beekeepers choose top bee space and others bottom bee space. Is the spacing dependant on hive type or is it personal preference?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don’t want to start another bun fight, but why do some beekeepers choose top bee space and others bottom bee space. Is the spacing dependant on hive type or is it personal preference?

most hives work on top beespace, it's just (as usual) the British National hive had to be different, if you use national you are lumped with BBS unless you make a conscious effort to convert. Many say that TBS has advantages, it does save a little time, especially for commercials with countless hives, and when making crownboards, you don't need a rim - just a plain piece of board.
I'm happy to stick with BBS and it's a bit too late to change.
The nighmare starts if you end up with a mix of top and bottom beespace which can happen if you buy second hand National stuff.

 

[Swarm]

Personal preference.

 

[E&MBees]

most hives work on top beespace, it's just (as usual) the British National hive had to be different, if you use national you are lumped with BBS unless you make a conscious effort to convert. Many say that TBS has advantages, it does save a little time, especially for commercials with countless hives, and when making crownboards, you don't need a rim - just a plain piece of board.
I'm happy to stick with BBS and it's a bit too late to change.
The nighmare starts if you end up with a mix of top and bottom beespace which can happen if you buy second hand National stuff.

Mine are BBS too as I have nationals. I assume then, that Dani has converted hers as her photos appear to show nationals.
Dani, can I ask why you have chosen TBS?
Thanks,
Emily

 

[thorn]

I didn't make a conscious decision, I just ended up with what the hives dictated.

 

[fiat500bee]

I thought about converting my hive at the start of beekeeping; but on bottom bee space the bees seem less inclined to see me and be startled by the sudden light when the hive is opened. On the whole, in my brief experience, they're wandering about on the bottom of the frames rather than the top.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Mine are BBS too as I have nationals. I assume then, that Dani has converted hers as her photos appear to show nationals.
Dani, can I ask why you have chosen TBS?
Thanks,
Emily

Personal preference. My first hive came with one of those flat zinc QX. I knew no better. I hated it going straight on the bees. I had a friend who had Langstroth hives which are top space and it looked so much easier to not squash bees. Stan converts all the wooden boxes if I buy supers and the poly supers are run without runners but with plastic home made castellations. The brood boxes have a plastic eke glued on top.
Somebody will come along to say top space just lets you not see the bees you squash on the bottom but when I take stacks apart I never see any.

 

[Murox]

Personal preference. My first hive came with one of those flat zinc QX. I knew no better. I hated it going straight on the bees. I had a friend who had Langstroth hives which are top space and it looked so much easier to not squash bees. Stan converts all the wooden boxes if I buy supers and the poly supers are run without runners but with plastic home made castellations. The brood boxes have a plastic eke glued on top.
Somebody will come along to say top space just lets you not see the bees you squash on the bottom but when I take stacks apart I never see any.

I was "brought up" with top bee space - feels more natural to me - but I really think its just personal preference. Mind you most of the rest of world uses langs so perhaps it's just another english oddity.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

With plywood crown boards, if you don't have a strip of wood around them, the top plywood layer can come off in strips - being stuck to the hive body.

 

[Swarm]

TBS.

 

[pargyle]

When I built my first hive I didn't know any better so I just made it with TBS ... seems pretty natural to me these days .. although in the wild I've never seen bees making top bee space ... having said that .. they are living in bee hives and not hollow trees. I like it because with clear crownboards with a rim I can see the bees walking around on top of the frames when I peer in and that gives me pleasure..... there has to be some in amongt all the pain of keeping bees.

It's a personal choice at the end of the day... like a lot of other things in beekeeping !

 

[E&MBees]

Thanks for all the interesting answers.

 

[Malcolm Stamp]

I run langstroth,TBS, except that some of my supers have had runners added which then moved the space on those down to the bottom so this winters job is to get the router out and make sure all the runners are the right distance from the top, same job will be done on the brood boxes in the spring when they are changed out for cleaning.

 

[AubMar]

I'm using Paynes poly nationals that come with a flimsey 1mm top cover - bee killers because no top bee space (for me anyway)
I was never happy with them, no matter how you try and clear the bees with smoke or a brush and even gently sliding the sheet into place there were bees trapped, so to fix it I made clear crown boards with 8mm BS and put a 30mm feed hole in the centre fitted with a removable clear plug. The result is no bees crushed, in fact it completely changes beekeeping for me, inspections, feeding and a quick look on a warm winters day without opening are now possible, and I don't have to hoosh all the bees off the tops of the frames and agitating them.
One question is what harm will adding top space to to a colony that doesn't have some, I don't know any, and then what good will it do, well it allows the bees to move around inside the hive more freely where its warm rather than have to go to the bottom of the frame where its cooler. It also allows the keeper to manage the hive with more easy and less invasion. This is just my thinking and limited experience.
I'm working on a similar one for nucs now as attached!
Definitely worth considering for the small amount of money involved.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'm using Paynes poly nationals that come with a flimsey 1mm top cover - bee killers because no top bee space (for me anyway)
I was never happy with them, no matter how you try and clear the bees with smoke or a brush and even gently sliding the sheet into place there were bees trapped, so to fix it I made clear crown boards with 8mm BS and put a 30mm feed hole in the centre fitted with a removable clear plug. The result is no bees crushed, in fact it completely changes beekeeping for me, inspections, feeding and a quick look on a warm winters day without opening are now possible, and I don't have to hoosh all the bees off the tops of the frames and agitating them.
I'm working on a similar one for nucs now as attached!
Definitely worth considering for the small amount of money involved.

I have a couple of Payne’s nucs and I’ve done the same with the crownboards. You have to deepen the roof at the same time.
The flimsy crownboards they do provide are really useful fir putting into stacks of supers stores wet for winter.

 

[fiat500bee]

it allows the bees to move around inside the hive more freely where its warm rather than have to go to the bottom of the frame where its cooler. d.
View attachment 22508View attachment 22509

They can still walk around on the top of the frames with bottom bee-space when there is more than one box. As long as you don't have that very basic crownboard that you were supplied with, there is always space on the top provided by the rim of the board.

 

[Erichalfbee]

They can still walk around on the top of the frames with bottom bee-space when there is more than one box. As long as you don't have that very basic crownboard that you were supplied with, there is always space on the top provided by the rim of the board.

Yes. If you put a framed crownboard on you convert the top box to bottom and top space.

 

[fiat500bee]

Yes. If you put a framed crownboard on you convert the top box to bottom and top space.

True, but taking that view on it, all hives, whether top or bottom bee-space, have top and bottom bee space when assembled.

 

[understanding_bees]

I made clear crown boards with 8mm BS and put a 30mm feed hole in the centre fitted with a removable clear plug.

I like the idea of being able to see the bees without having to remove the inner cover. You said "8mm BS", I presume you mean 8mm thick clear plastic? Please advise what "BS" is, is it perspex, or polycarbonate, or .... ?
Have you found a way to ensure that the bees do not soil the underside of the plastic sheet? From my limited experience, I imagine that the sheet may become less and less transparent as it becomes soiled, and that it may become more and more difficult to actually observe the bees well.
Please allow me to also ask about the number of frames in the hive box - I counted eleven. Is this supposed to be a twelve frame box? If you have extra space between the last frame and the side of the box, won't you have problems with the bees building wild comb in that space?

 

[Erichalfbee]

True, but taking that view on it, all hives, whether top or bottom bee-space, have top and bottom bee space when assembled.

They have space between boxes yes. But top bee space and bottom bee space have a particular meaning and it’s not that.