To Clip the Queen or Not?

[UEAHoneyBeeMan]

Just about to start my 2nd year of queen rearing and considering the practice of clipping the queens wings.

It appears in the General Husbandry assessment and it's something I've never done.

I'm guessing there will be different views.

What do you think?

Stewart

 

[susbees]

I don't and won't. If I have bee improvement group queens here I mark them and check their laying patterns before distribution. If anyone wants to clip after that so be it.

For the Gen Husbandry you do not need to clip a queen. As long as you can provide a valid reason not to then you are permitted to demonstrate on a drone if asked to up to the point of angling the scissors. That came from an examiner (in the hearing of two more).

 

[Hivemaker.]

What do you think?

I clip all mated queens in production colonys,very important part of my managment system.

 

[UEAHoneyBeeMan]

I clip all mated queens in production colonys,very important part of my managment system.

Could you explain the reasons you clip. I'm currently sitting squarely on the fence!

 

[mbc]

I dont like to mark or clip a queen when shes young. When I've done it earlier in my beekeeping career and the queen has subsequently been superceded or failed I've marked it down in my mind as a mistake not to be repeated ( whether that is right or not - but I wont try again ). On the other hand any overwintered queen seems stable enough to be impervious to ill effects of marking or clipping (so long as no physical damage is done to her) IMO.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Buys me a little more time between inspections,if a bit late for one reason or another,and can prevent losing most of the bees in a swarm,queens getting lost i don't worry to much over, i can easily replace them.

 

[iand]

ditto mbc

Stewart

When you clip and a swarm comes out. If you have done a good job of clipping the Q, she cannot fly properly and ends up lost in the grass. The bees having lost the Q may end up going back to the hive. So all is not lost, that is until the 1st virgin emerges. Then they will go with her.
So you see it is basically used so you can hang onto your bees for another day or two depending. You still have do your normal manipulations.

Ian

 

[Hombre]

So you see it is basically used so you can hang onto your bees for another day or two

Not to say the percentage of the honey crop that they would otherwise be taking with them as well.

 

[Norton]

I clip all mated queens in production colonys,very important part of my managment system.

 

[Poly Hive]

Not being funny but this is a classic ameteur discussion.

If you were to aks the same q on a Bee Farmer forum the answers would be very different for the very reason Hivemaker gave you.

I clip. Firmly.

There is no good reason not to. This stuff about they supped... says operator error.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

If you are a commercial enterprise, it is probably a more important aspect as time is money and so is honey.

The hobbyist may have different priorities.

Working pattern , family comittments, number of colonies, location, may all be deciding factors. The queen should not be.

Clipping will not stop you losing her. Hence, those who do not wish to lose/replace their queen annually, or at least more often than necessary, will maybe not clip and those who consider any of the above as a valid reason for doing so, may clip. The one thing you don't do is decide (one way or the other) without thinking about it first.

RAB

So your choice really.

 

[susbees]

The way I see it is this: if I had hundreds of colonies and had to make a living of it I would clip. I would view this in the same way as various other farming management techniques we impose on livestock. The only one of those I actually do now is tagging sheep.

Scenario 1: Queen dies a slow death on the grass, bees go home. There is no reason to have very swarmy bees - it can be bred out and if the weather has stopped inspections presumably the first VQ takes a larger? normal sized? swarm with her instead the second the weather improves, having matured in her cell. For the smaller keeper I don't think this makes sense. The VQ is as likely to end up in a chimney as the original Q so any cries of "irresponsible" for not clipping can be ignored.....excepting that proper management and selection for less swarmy bees should be in place.

Scenario 2: Queen makes it back. Anyone thought what happens next? Do they say welcome home dear and tear down the swarm cells? Or do they keep going in and out til we return to scenario 1 by which time they may well swarm anyway with the VQ who's been hemmed in her cell whilst swarming was delayed.

So for the smaller beekeeper I don't see the need. And I never feel that "because my mentor does" is a good enough reason. And I repeat, if a bee farmer chooses to manage stock differently that's his prerogative within the law.

 

[For want of a better word]

How many swarms has anyone [who collects swarms on a regular basis ] found with a marked unclipped (obviously !) queen ?

Last year [for me ] ... one out of four'''' one quarter or 25 %... there is a skewd statistic as I am not on the pot diggers BBKA approved Swarm collectors list !..

pot as in chimney that is.. not as in at end of rainbow

 

[Poly Hive]

Of the 10 swarms I collected last year not one was marked or oddly clipped.... LOL

I would suggest at a min peeps at least mark the Q. If you have never done it then practice on drones first, and do remember to kill them off else rod and back...lol

BTW never had a colony supersede after clipping. A rod all to frequently used by the anti clip mindset.

There is a very good reason for doing it which is time, and time is the curse of the amateur and at times more so than the pro who dedicates his time to the issues.
PH

 

[susbees]

Six swarms collected, one marked queen.

 

[Poly Hive]

Further thought (as I dog walked) if you do not go even as far as marking your queens how can supercedure strains be identified?

PH

 

[mbc]

Not being funny but this is a classic ameteur discussion.

If you were to aks the same q on a Bee Farmer forum the answers would be very different for the very reason Hivemaker gave you.

I clip. Firmly.

There is no good reason not to. This stuff about they supped... says operator error.

PH

This is arrogant, wrong, ill advised and wrong again ( and not funny )

I would put my house on the vast majority of queens belonging to beefarmers being unclipped, certainly a larger proportion of unclipped queens than found amongst amateur beekeepers.

If you were to clip a queen then gently is the way to do it.

More clipped and/or marked young queens get rejected or superceded than unclipped ones, fact.

 

[mbc]

BTW never had a colony supersede after clipping. A rod all to frequently used by the anti clip mindset.

PH

So you clip your queens yet you've never had them supercede ?!

By the way, I'm all for clipping queens when they're abit older ( 2nd year + ) its just the misinformation I wish to challenge.

 

[Poly Hive]

I have never had a colony supercede due to the queen being clipped that I know of. I did though breed for a supercedure strain and was heading towards that quite well, some 60 - 4p sup to swarm.

The beefarmers I used to talk to all clipped hence my comment.

MBC you are entitled to your opinion but it is not one I share. My experience is obviously different to yours.

However I am entitled to my opinion and what I said is in my view not arrogant at all.

PH

 

[Norton]

It's best not to mess around too much with queens until they are over 90 days old AND therefore the majority of the bees in the colony are her daughters. After that you can do pretty much what you like with them, clip them, mark them or both. I clip and mark most queens as early as possible as I have to be sure and have control over what is going on with the queens and colonies, it's not possible to check them every week and sometimes not even every month during the active season.