Third swarm of bees to occupy my traffic cone

[user 20297]

Excellent response
Its that word “practice” that keeps me away from the doctor!

Practice makes prefect.

 

[Somerford]

.
I have practiced swarm control management two years running and I expect to continue practicing in 2023.

read my latest blog for an apology...

 

[user 20297]

read my latest blog for an apology...

You are right though.....I do need new specs!

 

[pargyle]

We can't really meaningfully discuss what we will know in a future stage of "global knowledge"

You're presumably talking about Schumann Resonances here. As I understand it that's a fairly well-understood electromagnetic effect in the atmosphere, not really "the Earth" that's vibrating. I don't see how it relates to alleged "energy lines" in the Earth's crust. If it's not Schumann Resonances, then please post more details.



This is surely the principle of ground penetrating radar and similar methods beloved of archaeologists. The point is that there's no problem demonstrating under experimental conditions that these effects genuinely exist.



Yet when the effect is rigorously tested, dowsing achieves results no better than chance. Even in conditions where so-called "expert" dowsers believe they are absolutely certain of getting a positive result.

James

Oh dear ... looks like Roger has fallen into the trap of responding to your denials and denigration.. I stopped doing that a long time ago ... you are welcome to your opinion ... those of us with an open mind and have seen the light know better....

 

[blackcloud]

Here's a 'Hive' I was shown where I was staying in London (Lesotho) my cottage was just beyond that big weeping wilowView attachment 32329

Double brood and two supers
They're definitely not 14/12s though.
Look more like 175/70R13s

 

[JamezF]

.
I have practiced swarm control management two years running and I expect to continue practicing in 2023.

<engage pedant mode>

You have practised ...

"c" for the noun, "s" for the verb. Unless you're a Left-pondian.

<pedant mode off>

Best hope I have that the right way around now, eh?

James

 

[JamezF]

Oh dear ... looks like Roger has fallen into the trap of responding to your denials and denigration.. I stopped doing that a long time ago ... you are welcome to your opinion ... those of us with an open mind and have seen the light know better....

Sadly you don't. You just think you do.

James

 

[Wilco]

Excellent response
Its that word “practice” that keeps me away from the doctor!

There was a time when I was in clinical work and we had some guy in to attempt to fix the phones or whatever else wasn't working. He saw a black cat in the garden and asked who's it was, to which I replied 'that's the practice cat', triggering an utterly aghast and shocked look on his face until I clarified what I meant!

 

[user 20297]

<engage pedant mode>

You have practised ...

"c" for the noun, "s" for the verb. Unless you're a Left-pondian.

<pedant mode off>

Best hope I have that the right way around now, eh?

James

(engage wriggle mode)
Swarm control is not a practice at which I am yet proficient, so more practice will be needed.

 

[JamezF]

(engage wriggle mode)
Swarm control is not a practice at which I am yet proficient, so more practice will be needed.

James

 

[aj180949]

Confirmation bias - Wikipedia

I have noticed that no-one ever seems to have done this dowsing stuff before they notice swarms arriving at a certain site.

This is a statement without proof. Words like 'no-one' or 'ever' are risky ones.

FYI, I tried to disprove the energy lines theory and failed abysmally. Tested 50+ swarm locations, could not find one where dowsing would not show energy lines (or whatever dowsing shows, I do not care what it is and how to call it).

How do you imagine 'dowsing stuff before a swarm is arriving' test? Could you please describe an experiment, I will be happy to try it.

 

[Boston Bees]

This is a statement without proof. Words like 'no-one' or 'ever' are risky ones.

FYI, I tried to disprove the energy lines theory and failed abysmally. Tested 50+ swarm locations, could not find one where dowsing would not show energy lines (or whatever dowsing shows, I do not care what it is and how to call it).

How do you imagine 'dowsing stuff before a swarm is arriving' test? Could you please describe an experiment, I will be happy to try it.

Same basic rules as for any scientific experiment.

• Find an area (perhaps a local park) that you have not personally known any swarms to arrive at (otherwise your findings risk being biased by prior knowledge)(this doesn't mean swarms haven't arrived there many times, just that perhaps you don't go there often and haven't seen them)
• Test it for energy lines
• Record the exact points at which you think energy lines will cause swarms to gather
• Publish those points somewhere - on this forum perhaps?
• Make yourself known in the area as someone who collects swarms
• Wait and see where, if at all, swarms do indeed gather in that area (perhaps make a point of walking the area once a day or every couple of days, so you don't miss them)
• The experiment will have to take place over a whole swarm season and perhaps more than one, to give adequate data
• Then publish your findings

Given how many people on here assert with great confidence that swarms land on energy line points, I am a bit surprised that no-one has ever done something like this (at least, no-one on this forum has published such a study, and I am not aware of any published study showing it)

We still have a couple of months of swarm season left. Come on folks - someone give it a try?

 

[aj180949]

there's no plausible evidence that ley lines or 'energy' lines exist.

May I respectfully recommend 'I am not aware of plausible evidence...' instead. More appropriate from scientific point of view - verifiable, unlike the original version.

How does it form lines? And why/how would it make a pair of bent wires move?

These are valid questions, but if we do not have answers, this is not an evidence of nonexistence of the phenomenon. This is a statement about our ignorance. We, humans, seem smart (not always, mind you, refer the Covid cult) but we surely do not know everything.

No-one has ever genuinely demonstrated the existence of ley lines, nor "energy lines", nor the validity of dowsing in a manner that would stand up to scientific scrutiny.

Again an unprovable generalization. I respectfully recommend to keep an open mind. And may I recommend writings by this heretic Rupert Sherdlake. His book 'The delusion of science' would be a good start. Fascinating reading for anyone with an open mind.

 

[pargyle]

This is a statement without proof. Words like 'no-one' or 'ever' are risky ones.

FYI, I tried to disprove the energy lines theory and failed abysmally. Tested 50+ swarm locations, could not find one where dowsing would not show energy lines (or whatever dowsing shows, I do not care what it is and how to call it).

How do you imagine 'dowsing stuff before a swarm is arriving' test? Could you please describe an experiment, I will be happy to try it.

Don't waste your efforts ... there are some people who will never accept dowsing actually works and James is one of them (although he appears to enjoy making lots of noise about it) - certainly for finding water and energy lines it certainly is successful from everything I've seen over the years.

Dowsing has been around for centuries - but, a bit like acupuncture, it's taking a while for the science to catch up with the practice (or is that practise ? - perhaps our resident practising pedant will let us know).

I think dowsing and energy (ley) lines have attracted some charlatans who have brought both into disrepute by making claims that are beyond that which they are, logically, capable of. I'm as open minded as anyone but I can't accept that people who claim that waving dowsing rods over someone who has a medical condition can indicate the source of the condition. It just brings their legitimate use into disrepute.

I've tried using the rods to find something that has been lost (as some dowsers claim they can do) - never had any success at all.

 

[user 20297]

How do you imagine 'dowsing stuff before a swarm is arriving' test? Could you please describe an experiment, I will be happy to try it.

Given that swarms so frequently (Ahem!) arrive on energy lines or in places where these lines converge, the experiment would require that a map, covering a wide area pinpointing many locations where swarms have gathered, was overlayed with a map of the same area pinpointing a number of random locations.

Using a researcher with no prior knowledge of the relevance of any of the locations, using dowsing rods, it would then be easy to (Ahem!) prove that swarms gather preferentially on energy lines .

 

[pargyle]

I've also noticed (as have others) that very often the largest and strongest trees are also found on the junctions of energy lines ... perhaps nature has a way of knowing where these forces are strongest and takes advantage of the effect they have.

Our dogs have always laid in a particular spot on the lawn in our back garden - they have always found this spot to sit and sometimes sleep - whatever the weather, whatever the season, they seem to prefer it - I've dowsed the lawn and sure enough there is confluence on that spot.

We now know that trees communicate via their root systems and share knowledge (and in some cases share water and nutrients) which is something that would have been laughed at a few years ago...

What else is there that is yet to come to our understanding ?

 

[RogerIvy]

I've also noticed (as have others) that very often the largest and strongest trees are also found on the junctions of energy lines ... perhaps nature has a way of knowing where these forces are strongest and takes advantage of the effect they have.

My wife and I were just discussing our tree. Is it purely randomly located? Or are other factors playing a role? Who knows.
We also discussed the possibilities that bees simple like the look of the place when flying along. In the swarm who decides which way to fly? How do we humans imagine how bees view things?
And then we pondered the possibility that existing bees create a "bee city" that attracts swarms.
Loads we don't know .... but keep an open mind!

 

[JamezF]

there are some people who will never accept dowsing actually works and James is one of them

Actually, I have previously posted that under certain conditions I will change my mind. I presumably just take a lot more convincing than you do.

As I have also posted before, "Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out".

James

 

[JamezF]

FYI, I tried to disprove the energy lines theory and failed abysmally. Tested 50+ swarm locations, could not find one where dowsing would not show energy lines (or whatever dowsing shows, I do not care what it is and how to call it).

How do you imagine 'dowsing stuff before a swarm is arriving' test? Could you please describe an experiment, I will be happy to try it.

Your first paragraph demonstrates the need for the "before" test. Your knowledge of where swarms have arrived may well subconsciously affect the "dowsing response". This is one of the types of problem the scientific method is intended to compensate for.

I don't design experiments for a living and it's a genuinely difficult thing to do well, but I'd suggest you'd need to do something along these lines:

Pick a number of unfamiliar locations large enough to site a good number of bait hives and dowse them to map the "energy lines". Preferably have multiple unconnected people dowse them independently, because if the maps don't align significantly then you're already in trouble. Have someone else who has no knowledge of the map randomly place the bait hives (which must be as near identical as possible) randomly around the locations, but including the positions indicated by whatever intersections of the "energy lines" exist. In all respects other than their proximity to the "energy lines" they should be as indistinguishable as possible. Monitor the hives over the course of a season to see which are selected by swarms, and replace each used hive with a fresh one each time it is selected. Repeat the experiment over a number of years, switching the individual hives between locations at random.

Once the experiment is complete you can tally the results and see if there's any apparent preference for the hives at the intersections. Then consult a competent statistician to see how likely the result might be to have occurred at random.

There are a number of issues you'd have to decide beforehand, such as "how wide" an "energy line" or the area of intersection might be, how you can validly account for any disparity in the "energy line" maps, how you're going to obtain your swarms or if you're going to let them turn up at random. The moving of hives may ideally need to be decided beforehand. I don't know how many hives you'd need at each location, nor how many locations might be desirable. A statistician would probably need to advise. You'd need to decide if all bait hives will be the same size, in the same orientation and so on. All decisions about how the results will be analysed must be made before the experiment commences. And you have to accept that you will have no knowledge of which intersection/non-intersection hive has which swarm count until the experiment is over so that (for example) any decisions you may need to make or information you have to give to other people involved in the experiment cannot be distorted by what you know about the results so far.

Even then, there's clearly no guarantee that "energy lines" exist nor that bees or dowsing can sense them because there may be some other aspect of the landscape to which the dowsers and bees are responding, but even demonstrating the ability to reliably predict the preferences of a swarm would, I'd guess, be a very interesting result and warrant further investigation.

This may not be sufficient, but it's my best guess for the moment. As I said, I don't do this for a living, though I used to know people who did.

James

 

[Murox]

Actually, I have previously posted that under certain conditions I will change my mind. I presumably just take a lot more convincing than you do.

As I have also posted before, "Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out".
James

I remembered this and thought of you Lecture to the London Dowsers: Dowsing in Service to the Honeybee