I need some advice please…

[Will C]

I have two national hives, going into my third year of beekeeping that I’m managing on my own. I had a mentor who stopped coming last summer it turned out he hadn’t fed or treated for varroa so I had to do all this in October before I closed them up.

They have survived the winter, and are strong in numbers, I’m currently feeding 1 hive fondant and the other doesn’t seem to want it.

As I placed Apivar on the hives in October which I removed 6 weeks later, the supers on each hive now need to be replaced I believe as Apivar is poisonous.

I’ll get new frames, but at what point should I replace them.

Soon I think…

Should I use a clearing board to get the bees into the brood boxes to leave the supers clear so I can get rid of the old frames?

Apologies if this sounds dumb but I’d love some input…

Thanks

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As I placed Apivar on the hives in October which I removed 6 weeks later, the supers on each hive now need to be replaced I believe as Apivar is poisonous.

who on earth told you that!?
if the bees have cleared out all the honey they are good to use again.
you don't tell us what setup you have
I'm assuming a super each over the brood box?
did you remove the queen excluders? If yes, there will be brood in them by now.

 

[Will C]

who on earth told you that!?
if the bees have cleared out all the honey they are good to use again.
you don't tell us what setup you have
I'm assuming a super each over the brood box?
did you remove the queen excluders? If yes, there will be brood in them by now.

One hive is under supered the other not, as I was told it was too late in year in October when I shut them down, so I didn’t do the second hive. No queen excluders on at moment.
So you say then I don’t need to get rid of frames. This makes me happy.
They’re bringing in pollen and numbers are big, I can see clusters through Perspex crown boards.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I believe as Apivar is poisonous

Amitraz (the active constituent of Apivar) is not soluble in wax, unlike one of its residue constituents, formamidine. However, the amounts are negligible.
https://theapiarist.org/queens-and-amitraz-residues-in-wax/

a mentor who stopped coming last summer it turned out he hadn’t fed or treated

You seem to be responding better than the mentor, and it bears repeating that mentors can be a severe hindrance unless they are up to date and ready to encourage new ways, and not just oblige you to repeat their old methods.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

One hive is under supered

so move it up, over a queen excluder when spring actually arrives

the other not,

wait until they are stronger, find the queen, if she's in the super, move her down into the brood and slap a QX on

 

[Will C]

so move it up, over a queen excluder when spring actually arrives

wait until they are stronger, find the queen, if she's in the super, move her down into the brood and slap a QX on

And what do I do about brood in the super if it’s there? Use it as an extra brood box and put a QE over it?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And what do I do about brood in the super if it’s there? Use it as an extra brood box and put a QE over it?

no, do as I say, put the queen below the QX, the brood above the queen excluder (in the super) will emerge, the bees will clean out the cells and fill them with honey which you can then extract and consume as normal.

 

[Will C]

no, do as I say, put the queen below the QX, the brood above the queen excluder (in the super) will emerge, the bees will clean out the cells and fill them with honey which you can then extract and consume as normal.

Thank you. Makes sense.

 

[pargyle]

One hive is under supered the other not, as I was told it was too late in year in October when I shut them down, so I didn’t do the second hive. No queen excluders on at moment.
So you say then I don’t need to get rid of frames. This makes me happy.
They’re bringing in pollen and numbers are big, I can see clusters through Perspex crown boards.

Be cautious about what is a BIG colony at this time of the year .. numbers tend to fall in the month or so before Spring actually starts - what looks like a big colony may only be it's normal post-winter size. I've seen people adding brood boxes and supers in February and all you are doing is giving them too much space to maintain the hive at the temperature they need. Ignore the people worrying about swarming at this time of the year - it occasionally happens (not as often as some would have you believe) unless they are actually hanging on the front or underside of the hive they have enough space. You would be amazed at what '9 seams of bees' is capable of reducing to in actual size. It's not just the size of the colony and space that promotes swarm preps, weather, forage availability, drones all play a part.

I wonder if some of the people who cast the shadow of 'my bees swarmed in January' are just seeing a natural reduction in colony size or one that is failing ... or seeing the remnants of a queen cell or two from last season and thinking they are new.

 

[Penninetrader]

Be cautious about what is a BIG colony at this time of the year .. numbers tend to fall in the month or so before Spring actually starts - what looks like a big colony may only be it's normal post-winter size. I've seen people adding brood boxes and supers in February and all you are doing is giving them too much space to maintain the hive at the temperature they need. Ignore the people worrying about swarming at this time of the year - it occasionally happens (not as often as some would have you believe) unless they are actually hanging on the front or underside of the hive they have enough space. You would be amazed at what '9 seams of bees' is capable of reducing to in actual size. It's not just the size of the colony and space that promotes swarm preps, weather, forage availability, drones all play a part.

I wonder if some of the people who cast the shadow of 'my bees swarmed in January' are just seeing a natural reduction in colony size or one that is failing ... or seeing the remnants of a queen cell or two from last season and thinking they are new.

Excellent post

 

[ericbeaumont]

seeing the remnants of a queen cell or two

One was collected in Alexandria Palace, one in Woodford and I forget the other, but they were proper out and about swarms. They weren't mine, btw!

cautious about what is a BIG colony at this time of the year

Yes, but also cautious of a novice's description at other times. Understandable, as they will not have the experience to assess and may believe that a strong colony is one that fills 8 frames of a BB.

 

[pargyle]

One was collected in Alexandria Palace, one in Woodford and I forget the other, but they were proper out and about swarms. They weren't mine, btw!


Yes, but also cautious of a novice's description at other times. Understandable, as they will not have the experience to assess and may believe that a strong colony is one that fills 8 frames of a BB.

I'm aware that it happens, but it's rare and not the norm - I do question why there were swarms and it could be that their existing home became untenable for some reason - bees are not stupid - if they are cosy and dry and have food they will be very reluctant to leave somewhere safe and secure to seek a new home at this time of the year. With the storms we have had their existing home may have been destroyed and they had no option but to find somewhere else. Without knowing which hive they came from you can't be certain what the reason for swarming was.

But ,,, as Bernard Mobius put it so succinctly - Bees do nothing invariably.

 

[ericbeaumont]

why there were swarms

Well, Spring was as advanced as the colonies and with QCs in hives, off they went. As you say, a rare event but one to be taken into account when habits and routine lull us into forgetting that bees are unpredictable.

 

[pargyle]

Well, Spring was as advanced as the colonies and with QCs in hives, off they went. As you say, a rare event but one to be taken into account when habits and routine lull us into forgetting that bees are unpredictable.

So, you know the colonies they came from ? The difficulty anyone has at this point in the season is that if you start worrying about the (unlikely) possibility that they are going to swarm then the next thing you are going to be doing is tearing them apart looking for queen cells.

Personally, I'd rather leave them be than risk worrying about swarming .... the sky may fall in chicken-licken - bit it's not likely.

 

[ericbeaumont]

leave them be

Oh, I agree, not worth getting worked up about the chances, but worth keeping an eye on strong early colonies and responding, rather than going by rote and waiting until the standard swarm season arrives.

 

[pargyle]

Oh, I agree, not worth getting worked up about the chances, but worth keeping an eye on strong early colonies and responding, rather than going by rote and waiting until the standard swarm season arrives.

I would never disagree with that as a beekeeping philosphy ... learning to 'read' your bees and react accordingly is essential if you are going to be a successfu beekeeper - whether it's a backyard hobbyist with 5 hives or a beefarmer with a thousand. Some things you can do by rote but the key is to watch for the signs and be ready - or they will catch you out. It's always a balancing act though ..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I blame clear crownboards myself - it's all well and good saying they're a great way of seeing what's happening without disturbing the colony but..............
it's also an excuse to take the first step, ie, removing the roof, then looking down through the glass/perspex is open to all kinds of misinterpretation, then..............

as Bernard Mobius put it so succinctly - Bees do nothing invariably.

but it wasn't his saying - the same saying was quoted in Manley's 1948 book 'Beekeeping in Britain' and Manley made a point of saying it wasn't his but attributed it to a regular (female) contributor to the British Beekeeping Journal in the 1920's, unfortunately he never mentioned her name

 

[ericbeaumont]

regular (female) contributor

May have been Edith Avey, who was certainly contributing to journals in the 40s and later; some years ago I was given a pile of old magazines and her name was always there. Miss Avey was born in 1904 and was Essex County Disease Officer, an NDB, was awarded the BEM for services to beekeeping and always wore a skirt (and no protection) when inspecting colonies. An Essex BKA annual award is named after her, to reward those achieving highest marks in the Basic Assessment.

 

[judy12]

I've really enjoyed reading this excellent discussion. Thank you all.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

May have been Edith Avey, who was certainly contributing to journals in the 40s and later; some years ago I was given a pile of old magazines and her name was always there. Miss Avey was born in 1904 and was Essex County Disease Officer, an NDB, was awarded the BEM for services to beekeeping and always wore a skirt (and no protection) when inspecting colonies. An Essex BKA annual award is named after her, to reward those achieving highest marks in the Basic Assessment.

It would be nice to confirm who it was, maybe one day I'll have a brainstorm and sift through all the post WW1 BBJ's!!