The calmest bees

[RoseCottage]

I am beginning to learn not to expect a straight answer when I post but here I go again.

So having followed the Co-Op thread I started thinking about a wide range of issues. One of these was the docility of my bees. My girls are pretty calm but nowhere near the level of ITLD's bees.

I am not sure of the breed of my queens but I believe they are probably closest to carnies. I did ask Th**nes, who sourced them, and they struggled but I think I am probably right. I have a second generation queen who has managed to maintain a gentle hive.

If I wanted to get really gentle colonies like ITLD's but didn't want to buy in imported queens could I do it?

Do people breed queens with those traits in the UK?

I imagine some will question the value of having such a colony, others may educate me to how quickly the traits may be lost, but if at some point I had to requeen from outside of my own colonies it would be nice to try some really docile British bred bees.

Sam

 

[oliver90owner]

Do people breed queens with those traits in the UK?

Straight answer. Yes.

could I do it?

Probably not in the short term.

Regards, RAB

 

[taff..]

could I do it?

Probably not in the short term.

Regards, RAB

I think you've answered a slightly different question to what was asked, the question was 'could I get nice gentle colonies without using imported queens' rather than 'could I breed nice gentle colonies'

you dont need to go to large scale breeders to get good queens, many people breed good queens on a smaller scale with good results. this could be your key to a nice gentle colony in the short term

 

[Heather]

I note which hives is my best (calm, polite bees) and incubate queen cells from that one to requeen in a 'difficult' hive.
Have to say that so far this year all hives been to Charm School over winter

 

[oliver90owner]

taff..'

You're right. Should have read the OP post more carefully and not rushed my reply.

Of course depends on how you take the word 'imported' Brought in from outside can mean from the same country (dictionary says 'especially from a foreign country' but that is not exclusive of goods brought in from the same country).

I suppose one could buy in an imported queen from one of the nuc suppliers and it could be construed as a 'British product'. Lots of items are sourced abroad, processed in the UK and sold as 'made in the UK'!

Regards, RAB

 

[Brosville]

It always seems to be assumed that "breeding" is the only factor involved - I believe that hive and management style can also play a part. (There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that bees kept in top bar hives are more placid, the supposition being that they are less stressed than in "conventional" hives)

 

[RoofTops]

RC - if you don't want to breed queens yourself then you may find the only answer is to source a queen which the supplier can assure you will give gentle bees. Such a queen could well be imported (into this country for the pedantic) but given the number of queens being imported I wouldn't feel guilty about it.

Conversly, you could try and rear queens from your gentlest stock. This will work but might take a year or two and the first results may be dissappointing. Unfortunately, you will be very lucky to end up with bees as gentle as the ones described by ITLD. I had one once but they were headed by a queen originally from Hawaii - imported by someone esle I should quickly add!

 

[Finman]

.
Calm bees are result of selective breeding. It is unnatural to the bee and defencive habits are easy to return via crossings.

When you take a daughter from byed queen, it has 50% of origial genes. Next generation 25%, then 13% and so on. But you may get a mad hive into your yard when ever.

Calm is only one feature of a good hive, but important. It depends what drones you have around your bee yard.

 

[Finman]

It always seems to be assumed that "breeding" is the only factor involved - I believe that hive and management style can also play a part. (There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that bees kept in top bar hives are more placid, the supposition being that they are less stressed than in "conventional" hives)

stressed bees..... Top bar folks have lots of anecdotes. Top bar beekeepers are more stressed.

If you go to handle the hive near sun set you probably get a good dose of stings and during day bees don't care about you a bit.

If you do not select your queens, you have surely troubles.

I rear extra queens and I kill the defensive queens. Same happens to queens which have not healthy looking brood area.

 

[mbc]

Culling queens from feisty hives will have more effect than breedeing from gentle ones, though obviously both in conjunction is best.
Dont be too hoodwinked by ITLD's photo's, note the caption, time of year and strength of the colonies have a bearing on defensiveness of the colonies, I'm not saying those bees arent docile but I doubt you'd see his grandson leaning over a powerfull hive in june at rape petal fall.

 

[Crg]

Culling queens from feisty hives will have more effect than breedeing from gentle ones, though obviously both in conjunction is best.
Dont be too hoodwinked by ITLD's photo's, note the caption, time of year and strength of the colonies have a bearing on defensiveness of the colonies, I'm not saying those bees arent docile but I doubt you'd see his grandson leaning over a powerfull hive in june at rape petal fall.

If you've never come across docile bees, it doesn't mean they don't exist.
What some people call docile in the country I certainly wouldn't. I expect them to be docile not matter what is going on.

It wasn't ideal temperature to be looking at bees today but I still had a group of children looking through my hives with just a veil on, and you'll see me do that at any time through out the year.

 

[Skyhook]

I note which hives is my best (calm, polite bees) and incubate queen cells from that one to requeen in a 'difficult' hive.
Have to say that so far this year all hives been to Charm School over winter

I suspect the key difference here is that you have 20 colonies, RC has 2. Rather limits his opportunities for selection. The only way round that is to team up with a bunch of local beeks and select among your combined options.

 

[RoseCottage]

Thank you all for your comments. I think that if I had to re-queen from outside my two colonies I would seek a calm queen bred in the UK. Does anyone know of breeders who advertise this trait in particular?

I think it would be an interesting experiment.

Also is there any form of rule of thumb about how many generations of queen may be required for a given trait to be noticeably expressed? So calm queens appear after 10 refinements...etc

All the best,
Sam.

 

[kazmcc]

Who is ITLD?

 

[RoseCottage]

Sorry ITLD is the short form of username Into The Lion's Den. ITLD is heavily involved in the queens from NZ import thread that is now on its 47th page.

In his profile he posted some pictures of hive visits without protection - his bees are so docile that he felt he didn't need any for himself or his young grandson.

Pretty remarkable and a little uncomfortable at the same time.



Sam

 

[Skyhook]

Who is ITLD?

Come on Kaz, keep up. There will be questions at the end you know!

 

[Crg]

In his profile he posted some pictures of hive visits without protection - his bees are so docile that he felt he didn't need any for himself or his young grandson.

Pretty remarkable and a little uncomfortable at the same time.

Why would you keep anything else?

 

[kazmcc]

Come on Kaz, keep up. There will be questions at the end you know!

I'm sort of lagging behind a bit here lol. I had a look at the members list but couldn't identify who you all meant.
We have very nice bees. We've done some beginner stuff to them and they've never stung anyone. I love them and know how they behave. I think I know those bees better than anyone, but still I wouldn't be comfortable without protection. Everyone who has visited them have commented on how gentle they are and how quickly they settle back down after we've disturbed them, so his bees must be crossed with pussycats lol