Thanks to a brave beekeeper

[nelletap]

A beekeeper adjacent to our apiary has mild infection of EFB. He very kindly invited us to attend when the seasonal inspector came today and I learned an awful lot.

I think most beekeepers want to keep the whole thing secret - I can understand that. However, surely a positive sharing and working together is a constructive process which gives strength to a locality. He has been a superb example to us; showing us things that led him to be suspicious early and I feel much better able to spot things sooner as a result. Knowing the procedure - and more importantly being part of it - will allow me to be prepared should this ever happen to me. For example, it emphasises the need for spare frames and brood bodies whereas I have tended to buy more or less as I am about to need them. Also made me think again about polystyrene having seen the blow torching of the wooden parts and wondering whether any cleaning of polystyrene can be as good.

As the inspector worked and took a sample from another hive he devolved information about why a test may not always be conclusive - again I am sure this will stand me in good stead.

Hard to see frames and equipment being burnt - but the totting up for insurance was part of the whole and in a strange way would make it easier for me having seen it happen to someone else. I know that seems a little ghoulish but I hope you can understand how I intend that.

 

[madasafish]

Also made me think again about polystyrene having seen the blow torching of the wooden parts and wondering whether any cleaning of polystyrene can be as good.
.

Great article thanks but your comment above suggests you think the rest of Europe have got beekeeping wrong..

Reminds me of the Littlke Englanders arguments about football

 

[nelletap]

Didn't mean to make any implications about others - just know that if the worst happens to me I shall want to feel that all chance of infection has gone. To be honest, though it sounds extravagant, I think I might even want to buy new wooden brood boxes as well. Perhaps someone who is knowledgeable can say more about what happens to polystyrene hives in these circumstances? Is it bleach? I think it has also made me doubly wary of getting any second hand equipment. It is probably the fact I am still learning that makes me this wary so happy for a healthy debate.

 

[Silly Bee]

Not sure most would want to keep a case of EFB secret, at least I'd hope not.

 

[nelletap]

I think anyone who can should ask their own bee inspector whether in their experience secrecy is the route taken. All indications we had this morning were that the open approach from the beek concerned was the exception rather than the rule.

 

[VEG]

yep I had a phone call from the chap that has it in his apiary to let me know.

 

[region2]

As the inspector worked and took a sample from another hive he devolved information about why a test may not always be conclusive - again I am sure this will stand me in good stead.

Please expand...

My inspector told me that one Division banned a member with EFB from their apiary meetings!

R2

 

[Into the lions den]

Didn't mean to make any implications about others - just know that if the worst happens to me I shall want to feel that all chance of infection has gone. To be honest, though it sounds extravagant, I think I might even want to buy new wooden brood boxes as well. Perhaps someone who is knowledgeable can say more about what happens to polystyrene hives in these circumstances? Is it bleach? I think it has also made me doubly wary of getting any second hand equipment. It is probably the fact I am still learning that makes me this wary so happy for a healthy debate.

As Gavin (if he is about and reading) will vouch for, we had EFB extensively throughout our unit as a result of the big 2009 finding. Number of polysyrene box destroyed = nil. Number poly boxes over the three year fight that has EFB = >50..........and all then sterilised with 5% caustic soda solution. All returned to service. Number of poly hives with EFB in 2012 so far? Nil.

Total EFB finds so far in our unit = 8 (was 169 in 2009) All 8 are in WOODEN hives. If you believe the only way is scorching then that should not be where the light residuals are being found.

As regards secrecy, well I personally do not think that a good idea, and a real live EFB or AFB outbreak is, properly managed, the best possible education tool. By helping to educate those around you you help reduce the possibility of an undiagnosed outbreak on your doorstep re-infecting your own unit after you have cleaned it up.

However, not all think alike, and there are in some areas some real loonies about who could take reprisals against the bees of the person they perceive as having a 'diseased' outfit. The inspectors MUST keep it vague and must protect your data, so they cannot be precise with their information. Its not being secretive, just the reality of the world we are in today.

 

[Teemore]

I am of the view that honesty is the best policy and as others have intimated, that principle applies to notifiable diseases. I consider that it is in the interests of beekeeping in general to disclose diseases. I also share Nelletap's view that the beekeeper in question has greatly helped her learning process by bringing her in to view the inspection etc. My own learning was furthered in a not too dissimilar situation.
It is unfortunate that a lot of beekeepers are not so open and whilst they well know AFB and EFB are notifiable, some go out of their way to hide/cover up infections. Worse still, some haven't a clue how to identify these diseases and are unable to even identify when the brood is not normal. Listening to some beekeepers at various conferences makes me think that this is more common than it should be across the UK and Ireland.

 

[sherwood]

Nellie without naming names can you tell me the post code of the outbreak as I have just supplied some bees yesterday to a beginner in Holmer Green. You may PM me if you dont want to broadcast it.

Alan

 

[flemage]

i agree with nelletap here, well done that beekeeper!

in the middle of some thing horrible thinks of others learning experance.

 

[BBG]

Nelletap

Well done on your beekeeper friend for being open and honest with those around him.

Our Scottish colleagues stand together against the foe and produce excellent advice, which should be followed at all apiaries.

http://tinyurl.com/cjellx7

"Also made me think again about polystyrene having seen the blow torching of the wooden parts and wondering whether any cleaning of polystyrene can be as good."

Polystyrene is easily sterilised, most hives have moulded corners and others like MB stuff, we take apart and scrub using hypochlorite, rinse, air-dry then reassemble when giving clean boxes.

ITLD amply illustrates what good management, hygiene and will does.

 

[Skyhook]

It has always surprised that that blowtorching is the recommended form of sterilizing. Autoclaving I could understand, but it seems to me such a fast method of heating that when the wood is charring on top, it could still be cold behind a splinter of wood, or 1-2mm into a joint.

Soaking with bleach or soda seems much more likely to do a thorough job. If you soak then blowtorch, you would get a third benefit of steaming.

 

[nelletap]

I have learned a great deal from the discussion about treating equipment - and the link to the Scottish beekeepers procedures. I somehow thought that as it seemed softer, polystyrene might have small holes / nooks or crannies that would be hard to clean yet it seems I had ignored all sorts of aspects.
Tricia
PS Sherwood I did PM you

 

[nelletap]

Not sure whether this would be better in a new thread - however, after all the comments about effectiveness of cleaning both polystyrene and wooden hives, I have been reading as much as I can to further comprehend the issues. I believe a wall paper strpper/steamer was mentioned as something that could add to the various tools /strategies. Presumably this would be combined with torching. I wondered if such a steamer could be used with a solution of something like the Milton fluid used in setrilising baby bottles and things. Can anyone comment?

 

[Moggs]

Scorching has been a well-established method of sterilising for rather a long time. Having had the misfortune to inadvertently (and very briefly) scorch the back of my hand throughout the process, I would venture that not much would have lived through the sort of heat delivered to my digits.

I'm quite happy to follow time-honoured methods - quick and effective.

 

[nelletap]

But as I understand it, scorching is by definition superficial. Some spores etc can then be missed as they can be hidden in awkward places (that is why the runners need to be removed, for example). I also understand that some research about reappearance of problems such as EFB has found that repeat occurrence has happened more often in wooden equipment reused after scorching than in poly when it has been cleaned.