tbh

[elmandy]

Hi I'm Andy, would like to get some advise on if it will be safe for me to open my top bar hive to see if the new top bars I put in 3weeks ago has any comb built on it, the weather is dry, temp is 16degrees, overcast, light wind, bees very active takeing in lots of pollen, so any advise wld b gratefully recieved, as don't want to lose colony due to inexperence, thankyou,

 

[Rob den Dekker]

I'm on Nationals myself, but can't see why it wouldn't be safe. How would you lose your colony?

 

[Tom Bick]

You can easily lift one up to see if it has comb on it, as to it having comb or not will come down to a number of factors and local conditions.

Something I like to do is tap the top of the bars, I use a hive tool, and the bars with comb sound dull and the ones without hollow the combs with small comb obviously in the middle.

I am working on the idea to get a tune out of it next year.

 

[parkranger]

Hi Andy

You don't say why you put additional top bars in three weeks ago, and it's a bit late in the season to expect a colony to be on the increase. However, in decent conditions, see no reason not to have a quick look and if they are not active on the news bars, suggest removing them until Spring and moving the board along to reduce space for Winter.

 

[drstitson]

what alternative conditions are you waiting for?

 

[elmandy]

Put 3 new bars in as the ones I had between follower boards were full with comb and honey, also capped young, not sure wot bees are as they were a swam I collected about 9 weeks ago, tho they seemed to have done very well, also they looked overcrowded on the 8 combs they have built already, could hardly see the combs for mass of bees,

 

[Tom Bick]

Yes lots of bees keeping the brood warm me thinks. You have a good chance they will fill the three bars during September when the ivy starts and perhaps even more. They seem to have started well in a short time and hoping they continue.

Interested in your TBH do you have any insulation in the roof or over the bars and if on open mesh floor is it open or closed.

 

[drstitson]

every inspection should have a purpose and thus in many cases will need to be carried out whatever the conditions (within reason).

 

[elmandy]

It's a closed bottom, have check the hive today, there was no comb being formed on the 3 bars, so. Took 2 away and left 1 as the end comb they have built 4 smaller combs comeing out from the main comb for some reason, so didn't want to squash them, have i done right?, there are alot of capped brood on other combs I don't have any insulaton in roof but will wen weather gets abit colder, think it mayb too warm to do it at present time, tho any advise you can give me on.this matter would be very welcome and appreciated, thankyou to all advise

 

[Tom Bick]

Sounds ok to me. Was there any bees hanging off the bars like chains of bees this is what they do when they start to build comb. Your bees are looking to expand and have decided to build comb from the face of your last comb they will probably continue this and it may be a bit awkward for later inspections but I would worry about it next year now.

I wonder if they are not starting comb from the bars but lower down off the last comb because of slight temperature differences perhaps the bar is that bit cooler but then sometimes bees do like to be artistic on their comb building. I like top/roof insulation and if you can salvage some all the better.

I think the closed floor is OK I have a mesh but keep the tray in most of the time and all I have to do is remember to clean it off when I inspect. A friend on this forum has built a cracking TBH with a solid floor and his bees are going great.

I have stopped inspecting my TBH this year and also a number of my nationals I know they are in good shape and dont need me interfering I have a couple of the nationals that I want to inspect over the next few weeks but after that its just hefting. I am not recommending you stop inspecting but as I suspect a new beekeeper you need to know if the hive has enough stores to over winter, have you a system to feed if they need it.

 

[pargyle]

Yes lots of bees keeping the brood warm me thinks. You have a good chance they will fill the three bars during September when the ivy starts and perhaps even more. They seem to have started well in a short time and hoping they continue.

Interested in your TBH do you have any insulation in the roof or over the bars and if on open mesh floor is it open or closed.

As it is scheduled to get a bit colder next week it may help them to build comb if you did put some insulation over the bars ... the current thinking for Kenyan TBH is that they also benefit from insulation on the sides and outside of the follower boards for overwintering.

There were quite heavy losses reported last winter from Kenyan TBH's in their 'as built' state as per Phil Chandler. As also suggested you really need a way of being able to feed them ... possibly sooner rather than later depending upon how much forage you have where you are. 8 combs of TBH size full of stores is going to be barely sufficient for a decent sized colony ... it certainly won't be if it is a winter like last year which finished about JUNE !!

 

[mbc]

... the current thinking for Kenyan TBH is that they also benefit from insulation on the sides and outside of the follower boards for overwintering.

I had the impression that the current thinking for Kenyan TBH was that they're fine nearer the equator, but the best thing for the bees in them nearer the poles is to shook swarm them into a conventional hive.

 

[elmandy]

I have rockwool to put in roof space wen its gets colder, on a recent bee course we were told that in woodland leaf litter there is a mite that eats verroa mite, If placed in hive, I have tried this as up to now haven't seen any mite on bees, weather that's due to leaf litter or ive just been lucky time will tell, if wen ivy comes into flower the bees build another comb shoud I add another top bar or not? I have a empty national hive I'm hopeing to fill nxt year, is it possible to transferred comb from the tbh to the national by moveing some of the topbars to the national?

 

[elmandy]

As it is scheduled to get a bit colder next week it may help them to build comb if you did put some insulation over the bars ... the current thinking for Kenyan TBH is that they also benefit from insulation on the sides and outside of the follower boards for overwintering.

There were quite heavy losses reported last winter from Kenyan TBH's in their 'as built' state as per Phil Chandler. As also suggested you really need a way of being able to feed them ... possibly sooner rather than later depending upon how much forage you have where you are. 8 combs of TBH size full of stores is going to be barely sufficient for a decent sized colony ... it certainly won't be if it is a winter like last year which finished about JUNE !!

I was told to put a tray if sugar candy inside the hive near the end comb, is this right? Or is there a better way, ?

 

[Tom Bick]

I have a TBH and dont follow them religiously but think this is wrong.[/COLOR]


There were quite heavy losses reported last winter from Kenyan TBH's in their 'as built' state as per Phil Chandler.

Perhaps or perhaps not I never heard of heavy losses


As also suggested you really need a way of being able to feed them ...

Yes that is good just in case they need it



possibly sooner rather than later depending upon how much forage you have where you are.

No as with all feeding situations you should assess if it is required


8 combs of TBH size full of stores is going to be barely sufficient for a decent sized colony ... it certainly won't be if it is a winter like last year which finished about JUNE !!

The colony is that size through its own expansion 8 combs is the equivalent I would say to 9 standard national frames plenty of bees will overwinter on less. I agree it would be better had the colony had all year to expand onto 20+ bars and will now be sitting on 40lb+ of honey.

 

[Tom Bick]

I was told to put a tray if sugar candy inside the hive near the end comb, is this right? Or is there a better way, ?

Its one way but other methods exist, it all depends how able you are with tools.

That bug thing that eats varroa are ants but the bees dont let ants walk all over the hive and the ants have to settle for getting the mites from inspection trays. No doubt other critters will feast on the varroa but again we have to convince the bees to let them walk freely throughout the hive.

Rock wool not great may hold moisture and not great to breath in. The best stuff is the silver foil backed insulation board 2” is plenty and 1” will do the job, failing the silver stuff good old polystyrene is as good insulating.

 

[madasafish]

My insulated TBHs survived -18C last year and the year before..*
No doubt I am doing something wrong...

* OMF with closed bottom with minimal air gaps at bottom.

 

[elmandy]

As it is scheduled to get a bit colder next week it may help them to build comb if you did put some insulation over the bars ... the current thinking for Kenyan TBH is that they also benefit from insulation on the sides and outside of the follower boards for overwintering.

There were quite heavy losses reported last winter from Kenyan TBH's in their 'as built' state as per Phil Chandler. As also suggested you really need a way of being able to feed them ... possibly sooner rather than later depending upon how much forage you have where you are. 8 combs of TBH size full of stores is going to be barely sufficient for a decent sized colony ... it certainly won't be if it is a winter like last year which finished about JUNE !!

There is actually 10combs in my tbh that bees have filled , as there were 2 topbar combs already in hive wen i put in swarm, combs from a colony that i lost so I think that helped the latest swarm settle in alot better,

 

[pargyle]

Its one way but other methods exist, it all depends how able you are with tools.

There are a number of good designs on the internet if your google 'Top Bar Hive Feeder'. Best type (IMO) is one that hangs as a follower board and which you can put both syrup or fondant in.

That bug thing that eats varroa are ants but the bees dont let ants walk all over the hive and the ants have to settle for getting the mites from inspection trays. No doubt other critters will feast on the varroa but again we have to convince the bees to let them walk freely throughout the hive.


Phil Chandler's deep litter floor for the TBH is intended to be filled with woodland debris and in this lives the Chelifer (Pseudoscorpion) which is a mite that has, in laboratory conditions, been shown to eat varroa. There are experiments going on at present to see if the introduction of larger numbers of chelifers into a hive could reduce varroa levels.

Rock wool not great may hold moisture and not great to breath in. The best stuff is the silver foil backed insulation board 2” is plenty and 1” will do the job, failing the silver stuff good old polystyrene is as good insulating.

Agreed.

 

[pargyle]

My insulated TBHs survived -18C last year and the year before..*
No doubt I am doing something wrong...

* OMF with closed bottom with minimal air gaps at bottom.

I think the ones that suffered were those that were made of thin timber and had little or no insulation above the top bars ... Insulation is so important not just from the point of view of heat loss but the fact that a well insulated hive will not suffer from condensation which is another major factor in successful overwintering.