Syrup construct

[Newbeeneil]

I'm not getting involved! I'm feeding fondant!,,,,

 

[Ian123]

25kg bags of sugar, water in 25l containers poured in a drum. Turn the mixer on and walk away. It need not be any more complicated than that.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

25kg bags of sugar, water in 25l containers poured in a drum. Turn the mixer on and walk away. It need not be any more complicated than that.

1:1, I agree. Try that with 2:1 and you will stir till the end of time.

 

[oliver90owner]

https://lclane.net/text/sucrose.html
This should help those that cannot dissolve 1kg of sugar in 1l of water and measure the volume. Or do the simple calcs frommthe density of 50% sugar solution.

But why anyone would make 50 gallons of 1:1 at this time of the year beats me - unless a large bee farmer.

It would likely ferment before use.

 

[Ian123]

1:1, I agree. Try that with 2:1 and you will stir till the end of time.

Lol no 2-1 works just fine. I certainly don’t do any of the stirring.

 

[Markthebuilder]

Consider yourself lambasted! 1:1 is a pound in a pint. 2:1 is two pounds in a pint. Those are not the same as a kilo in a litre or two kilos in a litre. They are close enough not to matter with 1:1 (+/- 10pct or so: who cares: the bees don't). But at 2:1 you are straddling the limit of solubility. At 20C two pounds of sugar will dissolve in a pint of water but two kilos will not dissolve in a litre. It's pretty easy to convert exactly: a pint is 20oz, right? So for each "one water" you need 1.25 when converting to weights. And 2kg of sugar indeed dissolves into 1.25l of water at 20C. Your ready-reckoned 1kg in 1pt will not dissolve.

As for making 50 gallons, keep debating on here! I'd make up my first batch, stick a drop in my hygrometer and work out how much 50 gal. is going to weigh and take it from there.

Is there a reason for only heating to 20c I think if you go to about 80c then 1 k sugar will dissolve in 1pt but. when I measure 1pt in a 1 lt jug then my pint size might be bigger than yours .well actually it’s measured from the kettle and the numbers have rubbed off +the temp could be anything up to just off boiling…

..genuinely is this ok…

.as you say I don’t think the bees care … bee farmers might and H/S might pose an issue for some but it’s not like mixing sand and cement where you have to be cock on

easy way as indicated by others is 1 cup/jug/bucket or other of sugar to 1 cup bucket or other of water for thin
And 2 cups/jug /bucket or other of sugar to 1 of water for heaven..

apart from making sugar resolve faster and having to wait for it to cool befor putting it in the hive are there any chemical/ nutritional issues with useing water that is to hot?

 

[Moobee]

Really good article in BeeCraft this month re sugar syrup…… we are overthinking it a bit!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Really good article in BeeCraft this month re sugar syrup…… we are overthinking it a bit!

Can you share the gist?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Something strange seems to be happening with the forum posts. This thread started in February from a beekeeper who is shown as joining a few years ago and was asking about mixing 1:1 presumably to kickstart spring expansion. Now we're approaching winter feeding it's resurrected and despite mixing syrup being discussed ad nauseum every year the merry go round is running yet again. We don't currently see the quote "think" as oft as previous years but this is a subject which would really merit thinking about what the forum search facility could be used for.

 

[Murox]

Something strange seems to be happening with the forum posts. This thread started in February from a beekeeper who is shown as joining a few years ago and was asking about mixing 1:1 presumably to kickstart spring expansion. Now we're approaching winter feeding it's resurrected and despite mixing syrup being discussed ad nauseum every year the merry go round is running yet again. We don't currently see the quote "think" as oft as previous years but this is a subject which would really merit thinking about what the forum search facility could be used for.

yes it does , noticed a similarity to this a few days back about another subject , the post just started in midair as though all routes etc had been removed.

 

[user 20297]

Something strange seems to be happening with the forum posts. This thread started in February from a beekeeper who is shown as joining a few years ago and was asking about mixing 1:1 presumably to kickstart spring expansion. Now we're approaching winter feeding it's resurrected and despite mixing syrup being discussed ad nauseum every year the merry go round is running yet again. We don't currently see the quote "think" as oft as previous years but this is a subject which would really merit thinking about what the forum search facility could be used for.

The resurrection of a thread is likely to be an indication that someone is doing exactly what you suggest.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Wouldn't be much of a forum if people just used it as a reference book rather than a discussion place, and as a matter of fact this one was resurrected after someone had used the search facility but had further questions

 

[Murox]

So the 'system' sort of works, might be useful if "a needs further discussion" sticker or similar got attached, implying that more information is required.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I really look forward to the syrup thread. Especially when we start to talk of weight/volume/specific gravity and millimoles. RAB’s input as usual gets me scratching my head and a lot of the other posts are wonderful.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So the 'system' sort of works, might be useful if "a needs further discussion" sticker or similar got attached, implying that more information is required.

I would have thought that the fact the thread has been resurrected was enough of a hint

 

[user 20297]

People seem to get hung up on either reaching the target of 2:1 (sugar to water) exactly, or hung up on proving that this is a physical impossibility.

I assume that the original intention of using "thick" syrup was to get the maximum quantity of sugar to the bees in the minimum amount of water.
As it is a scientific fact that at normal temperatures it is impossible to achieve a truly 2:1 solution, I just approximate the mixture using surplus sugar and leave in my mixing bucket any sugar which doesn't dissolve promptly; this forms apart of the next batch.

If, by using heat, you did manage to get more sugar dissolved than can be kept in solution at normal environmental temperaures, there is a possibility that it would crystallise out of solution in any case.

It seems like insanity to try to conduct this as if it was a laboratory experiment.

 

[Murox]

I would have thought that the fact the thread has been resurrected was enough of a hint

You assume too much

 

[Foxylad]

Can you share the gist?

 

[Erichalfbee]

View attachment 28128

Not as simple as my (and victor’s and pargyle’s) method though

 

[Moobee]

Can you share the gist?

In a nutshell, we all get a bit hung up on sugar ratios - as long as the proportions of light and heavy syrup are roughly 1:1 or 2:1 by either volume or weight, that’s close enough. Bees don’t care about precise percentages as natural nectar can range hugely between 4 - 70% sugar and it’s doubtful that any nectar occurs in these exact ratios! Plus there is no need to pay for inverted syrup as it’s ‘better for bees to digest’ - bees have invertase in their salivary glands which starts to work on nectar to break it down into glucose and fructose and other simple sugars so will do the same with sugar syrup, adding other enzymes in the process to invert and acidify the syrup naturally.
A few other points about the potential dangers of overheating sugar syrup so that (toxic) HMF can form and not using organic sugar as it has a higher ash content than refined (apparently ash can hold extra water in the gut leading to dysentery), benefits of feeding fondant or dry sugar in winter (not syrup which can lead to torpor) and advising that we should worry more about how the bees will access the feed, how cold it will get and how edible it will be rather than being concerned over precise measurements and recipes.