swarming nuc

[Nuc]

Hi folks, i'm just beginning with bees but feel like it's a crash course at the moment.
Bought my first nuc about 7 weks ago and they were great at first, nice and gentle, foraging, laying, etc. Then 10 days ago they swarmed up a nearby oak tree. Managed to retrieve them and house in a new hive but they absconded after 2 days. Swarm lost, remaining bees with plenty of brood/stores and several Q cells.
Then 3 days ago the nuc swarmed again, most likely with a virgin Q. Straight to the top of the same tree. Much too high this time so quickly made a bait hive and nailed it to a nearby tree. This morning they are still up the top of the oak.
Not many bees left in nuc now but plenty of brood.
As i see it all the comb was full and the foundation in the BB was not being drawn very quickly so they ran out of space to lay although still only occupying 6 frames in brood. Not having enough drawn comb could be the problem.
Suppose i should of AS them but inexperience caught me out.
What do i do with the nuc now ? The comb is still full up so dont want another swarm or i'll have no bees left. They have several Q cells.
Please help. Nuc.

 

[Poly Hive]

Dear Nuc,

where are you located as that is the first thing I look at.

Have you a mentor, and were you feeding them?

PH

 

[susbees]

peak lake testing....

You're right PH, not helpful. From previous posts these were in a Nat box beginning of June and being fed. Have you come across swarming before the BB is filled out? Faulty queen?

 

[Nuc]

Thanks for the quick response PH. I am in north staffordshire near the border with derbyshire and cheshire. I had been feeding the nuc with 1;1 sugar syrup to try to get them to draw comb. They have been bringing polen in all along but there has only recently been much nectar available.
The comb they have is mainly full of brood with just the corners and one side of a frame with stores. The nuc which i bought was housed in a 14x12 national BB as soon as i got it home.
What have i done wrong ?

 

[Poly Hive]

Probably over fed or bought a nuc with a defective queen.

PH

 

[Nuc]

susbees. Sorry you think i am unhelpful. If you would like to offer advice but need more information please tell me what you need to know.
PH thanks. So if the bees have any stores at all should i stop feeding untill they run out ?

 

[xgeordie]

Seem to recall the first bees I had swarmed before filling up the box. I'd reduce the remaining queen cells to just 1 or they may swarm themselves out of existence.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

peak lake testing....

Pretty sure Peak used to be ****'d out

 

[susbees]

susbees. Sorry you think i am unhelpful. If you would like to offer advice but need more information please tell me what you need to know.
PH thanks. So if the bees have any stores at all should i stop feeding untill they run out ?

You misunderstand me Nuc. I tested "peak" and "lake" against the spam blocker to see if we could find where you lived as it is listed as ****. Both came up positive.

And I agree you need to get in there today asap and reduce the cells to one open QC with a big healthy-looking larva or they will carry on throwing casts. Then check for more QCs until there are no larvae young enough to make queens from (six days).

 

[susbees]

Pretty sure Peak used to be ****'d out

I saw admin had changed the spam blocker after I posted on this thread. You could be right indeed. If so Nuc you could get into your settings and change it now. Sorted .

 

[Poly Hive]

any competent beekeeper keeps an eye on stores, it is one of the things that one checks for every inspection.

However, and the devil is aye in the detail it is possible to over feed.

Over feeding is a classic beginners error.

If you give sharp relies to well intended advice then that advice will very rapidly dry up leading to starvation of information.

PH

 

[Nuc]

I apologise susbees, i did read your first post wrongly. it does seem as though i've over fed them although the rate at which they have drawn comb is pretty steady from what i've read. Only one full frame in 7 weeks. I'll take the syrup off them tonight and remove all but one Q cell.
Many thanks to all who have helped. Nuc.

 

[rae]

it does seem as though i've over fed them although the rate at which they have drawn comb is pretty steady from what i've read. Only one full frame in 7 weeks.

A nuc cannot suddenly expand, it couldn't service the eggs and brood if it drew and laid up loads of frames worth. It needs to go though a brood cycle or two before it can build the numbers to a point where it can fill a hive with brood. Trying to drive this faster (by feeding) will result comb being drawn, and promptly filled with stores. Wax workers are also limited, so attempting to get them to go faster will just result in combs full of sugar. As long as a nuc has some stores, it does not need feeding at this time of year (unless the weather is awful, and the stores were dubious at the last inspection).

This is very different to (say) doing a baliey change in a full hive. In this case you have a huge workforce that can build comb and look after brood, and a big injection of sugar is pretty handy.

 

[Nuc]

Thanks Rae. Your explanation has enlightened me somewhat, although not sure what a Baliey change is. I'll google it. Cheers.