Swarm Prevention

[Finman]

I didn't realise you were in charge of this forum and could decide what and how other should post. You must have hidden your "admin" signature so as to fool us all.

Secret Admin by God's mercy.

Pargyle has banned me many times, because I do not believe Santa.

 

[Itchy]

My swarm plan for next season is... Clip all queens by end March, pick up swarms and recombine choosing which queen stays.

Unlike last season where I had swarms all over the place, many lost, colonies in cardboard boxes for months and total mayhem.

 

[pargyle]

Secret Admin by God's mercy.

Pargyle has banned me many times, because I do not believe Santa.

Ahhhh ... But finnie you have never called me the village idiot ....just the village dog ! And your posts are sometimes constructive if unintelligible and misguided ! Don't feel you have to join in ...I don't think there is enough room under the bridge for more than two trolls !

 

[Finman]

Ahhhh ... But finnie you have never called me the village idiot ....just the village dog ! And your posts are sometimes constructive if unintelligible and misguided ! Don't feel you have to join in ...I don't think there is enough room under the bridge for more than two trolls !

Don' become upset about that Santa again!

I prefer to be troll than to be a cave man and inventing all day long stone wheels.

.

 

[Tremyfro]

I haven't had any swarms leave my hives yet. I am keen to understand as much as possible about preempting the bees. 2 of my colonies are in double nationals ATM. Next year they will be moved into long hives. I am expecting them to build up their colonies in a similar way that they have this year. Both were very full of bees and I added supers for honey and for extra space. Sadly, we didn't get good weather and nectar flows were very poor. Both colonies managed to make honey though and neither swarmed.
This coming year, I feel, may be a different ball game.
So my question is....at what point do I demarree...what pointers are going to tell me it is time? I don't want to wait until queen cells appear!
Do I wait for the colony to complete its spring build up?
Is the decision to demarree made on the number of full brood frames? Or on the population of bees?
What prompts a beekeeper to do the demarree?

 

[Finman]

I haven't had any swarms leave my hives yet. I am keen to understand?

I don't want to wait until queen cells appear!


Do I wait for the colony to complete its spring build up?
Is the decision to demarree made on the number of full brood frames? Or on the population of bees?
What prompts a beekeeper to do the demarree?

It makes no sense, that you do not want to see queen cells? You have decided such, what you cannot decide.

I may say for myself, that I do not want to see demarree. What I want to see is big hives and big yields. I do not want to destroy good build up.

Hives grow so long as queen cells appear. Then I move the laying queen into foundation hive, and it continues making brood for main yield.

There are hives, which do not swarm, and hives which try to swarm. So I inspect them weekly.
AS is good. When it is done, it will not swarm again.

40 years have gone this way and it continues. To keep slowly swarming bee stock needs every year something breeding and trying new queens.

Harms of Inbreeding are waiting behind the corner, but mixing bee stocks brings natural swarming.

I prefer to take swarming than serious collapse of beestock for inbreeding.

Hybrid hives are best foragers and strongest hives, but during two years hybridization has blowed in my hands before yield started.
However I got 80 kg/hive. But the swarming has been absurb.

 

[Finman]

.
I do not want to hang myself into principles or into methods, or into holy names. I choose from my tool box a proper tool, when it is time to use it.

Best what you can do is to save Globe with couple if hives. What you can do then is to dig a Hallelujah video from Utube.

 

[Thymallus]

Don' become upset about that Santa again!

I prefer to be troll than to be a cave man and inventing all day long stone wheels.

.

Yeah Man! Us Trolls get to eat fission & silicon chips.
Cave men only get humble pie!

 

[Finman]

Yeah Man! Us Trolls get to eat fission & silicon chips.
Cave men only get humble pie!

We have today father's day in Finland. Thinking silicons from very start of morning. Not bad at all. You are a man.

 

[pargyle]

I haven't had any swarms leave my hives yet. I am keen to understand as much as possible about preempting the bees. ....what pointers are going to tell me it is time? I don't want to wait until queen cells appear.
What prompts a beekeeper to do the demarree?

Usually when they are getting to the point when they are ready to swarm .... Generally when there is brood on (in a conventional hive) about 8 frames ... Preferably before any signs of queen cells appear (queen cups for instance) .

In fact this thread was originally about this aspect of beekeeping but .... As often the case ...there are many different ideas about what is actually behaviour that is a precursor to seeing queen cells ...

I gave some ideas about what I look for and was accused by the resident troll of giving bad advice ... Although few people seem capable of offering any alternative good advice !

So ... The answer may be ... Just judgement ... When you see lots of drones ...when the colony has built to a size where they are filling the hive ... When there is plenty of forage about and they are filling cells with nectar when the brood has emerged...and any of the less accepted indicators detailed earlier in this thread (depending on who you choose to believe ?).

Ain't it always the case in beekeeping. ? Ask one question - get 5 answers !!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Usually when they are getting to the point when they are ready to swarm .... Generally when there is brood on (in a conventional hive) about 8 frames ... Preferably before any signs of queen cells appear (queen cups for instance) .

play cells you've got away with it - if the QC's are charged it's too late

The answer may be ... Just judgement ... When you see lots of drones ...when the colony has built to a size where they are filling the hive ... When there is plenty of forage about and they are filling cells with nectar when the brood has emerged...and any of the less accepted indicators detailed earlier in this thread (depending on who you choose to believe ?).

All that and more - it is definitely a judgement call, one queen I had you could risk waiting until all eleven frames were full of brood, but then you had to be quick, it's just a feel for it, this season was a bit strange with bees swarming early and with plenty of room but usually, it's when the hive is packed with bees, they're filling supers with both honey and bees at a prodigious rate, queen is laying like a train and you just get that feeling in the back of your head that they want to swarm.
And as for build up - some obviously don't quite understand the principle of Demarre - onviously blinkered by self generated dogma; all you are doing is separating the queen from the bulk of the brood and giving her loads of room to lay - nothing leaves the colony - you're just doubling it's size - the heaviest yielding hives I have were all ones I'd Demarree'd - with the added option of rearing a new queen if i wanted to.

.
I choose from my tool box a proper tool,

Well, a few of those creeping out from the woodwork on here at the moment

 

[Finman]

.
But when you have Carniolan mongrels and selected Italian strain, the swarming habits are very different.

Often Carniolan mongrels does not mind about AS methods.

Inside Italian race you may meet what ever.

But basicly it is bees' habit to reproduce. And non swarming habit is malfunction of instinct made by human.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

.
basicly it is bees' habit to reproduce. And non swarming habit is malfunction of instinct made by human.

you just have to manage it as efficiently as possible - not stamp it out

 

[Finman]

If a hive starts to swarm when it has 6 or 8 brood frames, it is a miserable breed. 16 is better number.

Pargyle, change the genepool of you bees and quickly.
.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

did I just do that!

 

[pargyle]

If a hive starts to swarm when it has 6 or 8 brood frames, it is a miserable breed. 16 is better number.

Pargyle, change the genepool of you bees and quickly.
.

Why ??? Most hives I've seen .... Particularly nationals ... Are pretty full if there is brood on 8 frames ... But you would be adding a super by then ... I have 14 x 12 and at 8 frames of brood they will usually be ready to start building queen cells if there is good forage about ... And then its time to AS ...

You do give the wrong impression at times ... Not everyone follows your intensive style of honey production ...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Battery Bees?

 

[BeeJayBee]

I haven't had any swarms leave my hives yet. I am keen to understand as much as possible about preempting the bees.

Not quite answering your question, but if you keep an eye out for drone cells it'll give you a little more time to make your final plans. It's unlikely a colony will swarm without drones to mate with the new queen, even though they do prefer their queen to mate with drones from other colonies.

It's about 35-37 days from when the egg was laid for drones to be sexually mature, it's about 25-30 days for a queen. Both can, of course, mate after that number of days but each drone can only do it once.

 

[Finman]

Why ??? Most hives I've seen .... Particularly nationals ... Are pretty full if there is brood on 8 frames ... But you would be adding a super by then ... I have 14 x 12 and at 8 frames of brood they will usually be ready to start building queen cells if there is good forage about ... And then its time to AS ...

You do give the wrong impression at times ... Not everyone follows your intensive style of honey production ...

But 6 brood frames and swarming.. What kind of beekeeper you are?
Give those 5 explanation. And explanation is not my style.

You want to be like everyone. What is average life? Tell me.

Where you are good is poppy cutting, like Australians use to say.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Battery Bees?

Thanks for that -now I have to clean the spluttered tea off my computer