Swap a hive

[BEEBEGIN]

Hi

The answer to this question is already out there,but not to worry.
I want to move some bees that are in a and have overwintered in a Langstroth hive
I have been told to do this at the end'ish of March.They say to do this is to put a National on top with food in and frames and let them and the queen work their way up.I have tried this before with not any success,so I am sure their will be,someone to help me make a better job of this.(the reason for changing ids that the rest of my hives are National and it is a nuisance to keep this Langstroffe.
Regards
Ray

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

A Shook Swarm (described oin Dave Cushmans site and elsewhere) may be your best best if you are not confident about shuffling them upwards.

 

[Midland Beek]

1/ You could sell the hive and bees.

2/ You could do a shook swarm + feed. This will need a proper spring day, as in warm and dry weather. The queen needs to be caught and caged before she is placed in the new hive, and I would suggest in a Butler cage with marshmallow in the end.

3/ You could do as you did before and put a feed on top of the National. No matter what amount of syrup they might have available, bees also need warm temperatures to draw the comb. Get the queen laying upstairs and then you could put in an excluder and confine her there.

 

[BEEBEGIN]

1/ You could sell the hive and bees.

2/ You could do a shook swarm + feed. This will need a proper spring day, as in warm and dry weather. The queen needs to be caught and caged before she is placed in the new hive, and I would suggest in a Butler cage with marshmallow in the end.

3/ You could do as you did before and put a feed on top of the National. No matter what amount of syrup they might have available, bees also need warm temperatures to draw the comb. Get the queen laying upstairs and then you could put in an excluder and confine her there.

Hi
Thank you for that,mmm do not think option one is a good idea,I spent a lot of time and effort on them last year.But I presume you do option 3 with a bit of persuasion to the queen or will she just decide to get up stairs by her self??
Some else said opt 2 but did not add the capturing of the queen.I presume she is easier to find in the spring as in the summer?Mind you this particular queen is lovely,she is or was shiny black and big.
Thank you for your suggestions.
Ray

 

[BEEBEGIN]

A Shook Swarm (described oin Dave Cushmans site and elsewhere) may be your best best if you are not confident about shuffling them upwards.

Thank you will have a read.
Ray

 

[Midland Beek]

Sods Law says that if you put a National box full of foundation on top, they will swarm rather than use it.

Perhaps a shook swarm is the best option, and you do need to cage the queen to safeguard her. Do it only on a dry and warm day as you do not want clumps of bees dying on the floor.

 

[BEEBEGIN]

Thank you every one for all the replys.
Ray

 

[Haughton Honey]

Sods Law says that if you put a National box full of foundation on top, they will swarm rather than use it.

Perhaps a shook swarm is the best option, and you do need to cage the queen to safeguard her. Do it only on a dry and warm day as you do not want clumps of bees dying on the floor.

And try and do it before 1st May to allow the colony time to build up numbers ahead of the main flow...........

 

[RoofTops]

I've done shook swarms successfully without finding the queen first. It is reassuring to find the queen but it is not essential. If you put the new hive on the old site and leave out about 4 frames of foundation in the middle and then shake and gently brush all the bees into this gap you will be fine. You can scan each frame for the queen and if you see her make sure she goes into the gap but don't waste time scanning. If you don't see her it doesn't matter.

When all the frames have been cleared of bees brush the bees out that will be clinging to the inside of the brood box. The queen may be here so check and brush/shake carefully.

When you come to the floor avoid tipping all the rubbish on the old floor into the new hive. Again, the queen could be on the floor so go carefully.

If you don't have a bee brush a frond of fern works quite well.

Replace the new frames into the gap carefully, ensuring you do not crush any bees under them.

I always now put a queen excluder under the new brood box before doing the shook swarm and leave it there for about a week or until you find eggs.

Feed the bees 1:1 syrup until most of the frames are drawn out.

 

[oliver90owner]

Here is a suggestion.

Buy some frame converters from M*dern Beekeeping, fit, insert frames singly, as required into (or immediately adjacent to) the brood nest, wait until they draw and brood in those frames, then transfer to a National (after removing the converters, of course) when the Langstroth frames are all unused for brood.

Regards, RAB

 

[BEEBEGIN]

Here is a suggestion.

Buy some frame converters from M*dern Beekeeping, fit, insert frames singly, as required into (or immediately adjacent to) the brood nest, wait until they draw and brood in those frames, then transfer to a National (after removing the converters, of course) when the Langstroth frames are all unused for brood.

Regards, RAB

Hi RAB
Yes that sounds a good idea,so if I get this into my tiny brain which does not work very well in my old age(haha).Which month do I start to do this and I presume I move out the frames that they are not on,this is a very big colony and I think,they were on at least 6 or 8 frames.So if there are any spare this is were I put the converted frames?But how do I get all of the other bees on the other 6 or so frames?
We have very much appreciated all the help,but now I have got all the bits and pieces for Langstrothe hive so we decide to leave them in it as it has done so well?
Regards
RNG

 

[oliver90owner]

singly, as required into (or immediately adjacent to) the brood nest

Sorry, thought that was clear.

One frame at a time into or adjacent to the brood nest, removing an unused frame (an empty one or one just containing stores - honey if they have lots, or pollen if they have enough)

Which month

Your guess is as good as mine. Probably best to start as soon as they are going well on spring build-up. Might be March, likely April, perhaps May.

But how do I get all of the other bees on the other 6 or so frames?

The frame count should not change (especially if the box is full). One Langstroth frame out and one National frame (with converter) in. Only losing about 95mm frame width.

This, of course is dependent on your Langstroth brood box being deep enough for National brood frames - or it won't work!

Regards, RAB

 

[BEEBEGIN]

Thank you, thats great.Sorry for not understanding fully your first explanation.(senility creeping in)
Nice to have some explain in simple terms.
RNG

 

[BEEBEGIN]

Just reading again your last comment.I suppose I could put a eke or super on top that would give the depth,but I suppose it would not work.
Regards
RNG

 

[BEEBEGIN]

Hi RAB
Yes that sounds a good idea,so if I get this into my tiny brain which does not work very well in my old age(haha).Which month do I start to do this and I presume I move out the frames that they are not on,this is a very big colony and I think,they were on at least 6 or 8 frames.So if there are any spare this is were I put the converted frames?But how do I get all of the other bees on the other 6 or so frames?
We have very much appreciated all the help,but now I have got all the bits and pieces for Langstrothe hive so we decide to leave them in it as it has done so well?
Regards
RNG

Hi Oliver
Had a look at converters on that site.They are plastic,but all I really need to do I think (I know it is bad to think)is get some of the Langstrothe frame tops and connect them to the National frames and that would be the answer,what do you think,oh might have to put a super on top for the extra space above required?
Ray

 

[Rosti]

Have pm'd you Ray, R