"Survivor bees" found in Blenheim Forest

[Beesnaturally]

Yes. Individuals seem to be different than in another places, but they do not earn the value of subspecies.

Scientist are really eager to find their own new species.

Like black bees in Holland, Belgium or in France, they are not ecotypes. Border of countries cannot form borders of ecotypes.

Like in Russia, black bees are different, because 30% out of their genes comes from other bee races. So they are hybrids more or less. So called mongrels.

It is environments that shape ecotypes.

The present habit of treating bees against varroa forms ecotypes suited only to beekeepers (since they die if untreated).

The present habit of injecting such ecotypes into our environments wholesale via the international queen retailing industry maintains the need to treat them.

Blenheim bees are a threat to this entwined industry. That's why the high-powered hostility.

 

[Finman]

It is environments that shape ecotypes.

Yeah. Eco = oikos = home.

Ecology studys an individual's relation to its environment

 

[Beesnaturally]

Yeah. Eco = oikos = home.

Ecology studys an individual's relation to its environment

And that environment is a complex of competing ecotypes... an eco_system_.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Blenheim bees are a threat to this entwined industry. That's why the high-powered hostility.

Are they a threat? I thought they were “wild” and had no impact on “kept” bees and vice versa.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Are they a threat? I thought they were “wild” and had no impact on “kept” bees and vice versa.

If you can go and catch feral bees and not have to treat them, why would anybody buy queens or varroa treatments? No, the story is:

A) There are no wild bees. They are just domesticate bees pretending to be wild

B) There cannot be wild bees because bees will take 1000s of years to adapt to the new parasite

C) There are wild bees, but they are dirty and lazy (This is occasionally true on both counts, but they are also storming and clean as a whistle often)

D) Anyone claiming to have treatment-free bees is a liar or stupid.

E) We'll include Black Bee fiends in the general disapproval of people who don't buy racehorse bees. They're probably dangerous too.

F) Same goes for anyone trying to breed a 'better bee'

G) Nobody in the world has any evidence to the contrary.

 

[Finman]

H) Amen!

 

[Beesnaturally]

If you can go and catch feral bees and not have to treat them, why would anybody buy queens or varroa treatments? No, the story is:

A) There are no wild bees. They are just domesticated bees pretending to be wild

B) There cannot be wild bees because bees will take 1000s of years to adapt to the new parasite

C) There are wild bees, but they are dirty and lazy (This is occasionally true on both counts, but they are also storming and clean as a whistle often)

D) Anyone claiming to have treatment-free bees is a liar or stupid.

E) We'll include Black Bee fiends in the general disapproval of people who don't buy racehorse bees. They're probably dangerous too.

F) Same goes for anyone trying to breed a 'better bee'

G) Nobody in the world has any evidence to the contrary.

 

[Mint Bee]

 

[Frizzaldo]

If you can go and catch feral bees and not have to treat them, why would anybody buy queens or varroa treatments? No, the story is:

A) There are no wild bees. They are just domesticate bees pretending to be wild

B) There cannot be wild bees because bees will take 1000s of years to adapt to the new parasite

C) There are wild bees, but they are dirty and lazy (This is occasionally true on both counts, but they are also storming and clean as a whistle often)

D) Anyone claiming to have treatment-free bees is a liar or stupid.

E) We'll include Black Bee fiends in the general disapproval of people who don't buy racehorse bees. They're probably dangerous too.

F) Same goes for anyone trying to breed a 'better bee'

G) Nobody in the world has any evidence to the contrary.

how do we know these wild bees didn't just arrive as a swarm from some beekeeper down the road the previous year? you're guessing at very best so applying all these theories to "wild bees" is built on a very shakey base to begin with.

 

[Beesnaturally]

how do we know these wild bees didn't just arrive as a swarm from some beekeeper down the road the previous year? you're guessing at very best so applying all these theories to "wild bees" is built on a very shakey base to begin with.

If you are talking about the Blenheim Forest bees, yes you are right. I don't know anything about the site. I thought I'd heard that there were a number of colonies living freely there, and that that was what the fuss was about.

However if you are speaking more broadly, the idea that there are such places is commonplace, written of in the scientific literature, and attested by many here and on other forums. And I have quite a bit of personal experience of such colonies, having extracted and collected swarms from longstanding colonies for several years in search of resistant strains. I've seen and heard enough to convince me of the reality of 'survivor' bees, and some have now thrived for up to 8 years in my hands.

I'm tempted to add that such free living populations are very much to be expected on the basis of the facts of evolution, but I'd have to put my tin hat on if I said that, so I won't.

Are you familiar with the Blenheim Forest bees? Can you bring me up to speed?

 

[Beesnaturally]

View attachment 31072

More often they are out to sell you something

 

[Erichalfbee]

Are you familiar with the Blenheim Forest bees? Can you bring me up to speed?

Start here

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/survivor-bees-found-in-blenheim-forest.51826/#post-797132
And work your way to this post.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Start here

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/survivor-bees-found-in-blenheim-forest.51826/#post-797132
And work your way to this post.

Thanks for the thought, but I'm not going to plough through 38 pages evaluating each post for useable information!

I saw the original report in the Guardian when it came out, and have heard snippets from here and there, but nothing that has added much to my knowledge. I gather some dna tests are/have been running.

My thoughts then were: I doubt very much if they are 'remnant' bees in any deep sense, much more likely simply ferals that are a mix of native and the long history of imports. But they may well be a 'survivor' population. By that I mean a population of bees in which natural selection has worked its magic since the arrival of varroa, and they have gained a measure of resistance.

That possibility I find heartening and interesting. They should be being studied to find out if it is the case, and if so what mechanisms they are using, to add to the growing body of scientific evidence of evolved resistance to varroa, and scientific understanding of the mechanisms.

If anyone can update me I'd be very grateful.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well a few of us asked Filipe. He said he couldn’t tell us as he was bound by an NDA. Perhaps ask him. You might have better luck.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks for the thought, but I'm not going to plough through 38 pages evaluating each post for useable information!

I sympathise

 

[Beesnaturally]

Well a few of us asked Filipe. He said he couldn’t tell us as he was bound by an NDA. Perhaps ask him. You might have better luck.

Is he here?

 

[rolande]

Well a few of us asked Filipe. He said he couldn’t tell us as he was bound by an NDA. Perhaps ask him. You might have better luck.

This should be sufficient to kill any interest in the subject for everyone. Even if he's got the best bees ever, if he can't give us the details, who cares.

I'm starting to feel as if I'm turning inro one of those grumpy old forumites (I'm neither in reality) but it simply infuriates me that the subject has been put in the public domain and then effectively closed down.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Is he here?

Who knows? We all have forum names.
But he is on Facebook as I know you are

 

[Beesnaturally]

This should be sufficient to kill any interest in the subject for everyone. Even if he's got the best bees ever, if he can't give us the details, who cares.

I'm starting to feel as if I'm turning inro one of those grumpy old forumites (I'm neither in reality) but it simply infuriates me that the subject has been put in the public domain and then effectively closed down.

I expect he was quickly pissed by the quality of responses here. Its a pretty ugly place to try to have a conversation outside the mindset held by a small minority of barking dogs.

If we could reach him in a more protected manner we might learn more. He might allow us to question him about things, and he can stop when the NDA kicks in.

 

[Beesnaturally]

https://phys.org/news/2021-11-rare-wild-bees-english-country.html