"Survivor bees" found in Blenheim Forest

[Finman]

I just read a research about Russian forest bees on Volga river region. The region belongs to black bee original region, mellifera mellifera..
The result was that 95% are hybrids, and perhaps 5% can be considered as black bee.
The hybrid genematerial has arrived from south.

Poland tried to breed Caucasian bee 10 years, but Carniolan bee conquered the Caucasin genepool. It is strange that even breeding program did not help to keep Caucasian genes.

Just like guys speak about Buckfast F2 generation, which actually is not any more Buckfast bee. It is mongrel or hybrid.

What you can do in these cases is to start to search survivors
.

 

[user 20297]

Some people here seem to be just as determined obsessed to "prove" the negative as the Blenheim guy is to "prove" that his bees are "survivors".

 

[Erichalfbee]

Some people here seem to be just as determined obsessed to "prove" the negative as the Blenheim guy is to "prove" that his bees are "survivors".

Yes

 

[Finman]

Some people here seem to be just as determined obsessed to "prove" the negative as the Blenheim guy is to "prove" that his bees are "survivors".

*) If you think, no one proves nothing. It is only an article, where responsibility has been moved to the reader.

Article is a survivor show. It is part of Palace's continuous miracles.

Blenheim men know exactly what they are doing. They have worked so long with those bees. About forum members I am not sure.

Like in the picture a man is doing top bar hive . Something to do with natural beekeeping.

*) this is my conspiracy theory.

 

[Apiarist]

Poland tried to breed Caucasian bee 10 years, but Carniolan bee conquered the Caucasin genepool. It is strange that even breeding program did not help to keep Caucasian genes.

Yes, I too seem to recall reading a reasonably recent research article published online in which it was discovered that A.m.carnica now accounted for around 66% of bee genetics in Poland with the highest percentage towards the west (nearer Germany - were they pretty much only keep carnica).
It would be interesting to know what the genetics of bees are in the border areas of France such as Alsace, etc.

 

[madasafish]

Some people here seem to be just as determined obsessed to "prove" the negative as the Blenheim guy is to "prove" that his bees are "survivors".

I listen to politicians and question what they say.
What is wrong with applying the same principle to a beekeeper making unsubstantiated claims?

(Anyone who takes on trust what a politician says is likely to be sadly disappointed, Wedmore proved the same in beekeeping,)

 

[user 20297]

I listen to politicians and question what they say.
What is wrong with applying the same principle to a beekeeper making unsubstantiated claims?

(Anyone who takes on trust what a politician says is likely to be sadly disappointed, Wedmore proved the same in beekeeping,)

My point is that in this thread a few people are crusading to stamp on any possibility that the bees have an ancient genetic makeup They have no more scientific evidence than the Blenheim beekeeper has about the origins and genetics of the bees in question. Whilst I agree that they are much more likely to be correct than he is, no-one here is actually standing up up to support the premise that they are "survivor bees", yet we keep getting reminders that they are definitely not the bees he says they are.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

no-one here is actually standing up up to support the premise that they are "survivor bees"

Just shows you that the majority on here are sensible beekeepers who prefer facts rather than believe in fairy tales

 

[Finman]

My point is that in this thread a few people are crusading to stamp on any possibility that the bees have an ancient genetic makeup They have no more scientific evidence than the Blenheim beekeeper has about the origins and genetics of the bees in question. Whilst I agree that they are much more likely to be correct than he is, no-one here is actually standing up up to support the premise that they are "survivor bees", yet we keep getting reminders that they are definitely not the bees he says they are.

Two dots found.
.

 

[Apiarist]

no-one here is actually standing up up to support the premise that they are "survivor bees"

Hi mate

"survivor bees" must mean more than they are simply alive... I think beeks that refer to bees as survivor bees are implying that they have some special characteristic or ability to survive, while in fact it just may be good luck, flip a coin, in a room of 1024 people someone will get it right 10 times in a row (and vice versa).

Remember Seeley in his Arnot Forest research found that two key factors that helped bees survive was 1. they swarmed each year, resulting in that swarm colony getting rid of most of it's varroa (and the remaining colony had a brood break) and 2. the hives were more than 10m apart (preferably with barriers, ie: hedge / trees) so mites could not easily migrate from heavy to low (recently swarmed) infected hives, due to drifting, etc. the point I'm making is that tree cavities tend not to be as large as our hive's, therefore the feral bees are prone to more swarmyness.

BOTTOM LINE under these circumstances the swarming and the non-drifting is nothing to do with the bees genetics or characteristics, it's to do with the size (or lack of) of the hive and the hives proximity to other hives.

The claims of "survivor bees" is not difficult to prove, it can be done in six weeks (after the captured swarm has established itself in it's new removable frame hive), all one needs is a pin.

 

[Finman]

Hi mate

"survivor bees" must mean more than they are simply alive... I think beeks that refer to bees as survivor bees are implying that they have some special characteristic or ability to survive, while in fact it just may be good luck, flip a coin, in a room of 1024 people someone will get it right 10 times in a row (and vice versa).

Remember Seeley in his Arnot Forest research found that two key factors that helped bees survive was 1. they swarmed each year, resulting in that swarm colony getting rid of most of it's varroa (and the remaining colony had a brood break) and 2. the hives were more than 10m apart (preferably with barriers, ie: hedge / trees) so mites could not easily migrate from heavy to low (recently swarmed) infected hives, due to drifting, etc. the point I'm making is that tree cavities tend not to be as large as our hive's, therefore the feral bees are prone to more swarmyness.

BOTTOM LINE under these circumstances the swarming and the non-drifting is nothing to do with the bees genetics or characteristics, it's to do with the size (or lack of) of the hive and the hives proximity to other hives.

The claims of "survivor bees" is not difficult to prove, it can be done in six weeks (after the captured swarm has established itself in it's new removable frame hive), all one needs is a pin.

You have a test, which tells, which colony is survivor, and which is not? That is a strange idea. Pin test?

 

[Murox]

My point is that in this thread a few people are crusading to stamp on any possibility that the bees have an ancient genetic makeup They have no more scientific evidence than the Blenheim beekeeper has about the origins and genetics of the bees in question. Whilst I agree that they are much more likely to be correct than he is, no-one here is actually standing up up to support the premise that they are "survivor bees", yet we keep getting reminders that they are definitely not the bees he says they are.

As Max Delbruck once observed, ‘any living cell carries with it the experiences of a billion years of experimentation by its ancestors’.
It will be interesting to see DNA analysis results and see how they compare to known A.m.m. bees DNA. Of course these bees also need to conform to an extraordinary signature that makes them unique to the British Isles, or Blenhiem.

 

[user 20297]

Hi mate

"survivor bees" must mean more than they are simply alive... I think beeks that refer to bees as survivor bees are implying that they have some special characteristic or ability to survive, while in fact it just may be good luck, flip a coin, in a room of 1024 people someone will get it right 10 times in a row (and vice versa).

Remember Seeley in his Arnot Forest research found that two key factors that helped bees survive was 1. they swarmed each year, resulting in that swarm colony getting rid of most of it's varroa (and the remaining colony had a brood break) and 2. the hives were more than 10m apart (preferably with barriers, ie: hedge / trees) so mites could not easily migrate from heavy to low (recently swarmed) infected hives, due to drifting, etc. the point I'm making is that tree cavities tend not to be as large as our hive's, therefore the feral bees are prone to more swarmyness.

BOTTOM LINE under these circumstances the swarming and the non-drifting is nothing to do with the bees genetics or characteristics, it's to do with the size (or lack of) of the hive and the hives proximity to other hives.

The claims of "survivor bees" is not difficult to prove, it can be done in six weeks (after the captured swarm has established itself in it's new removable frame hive), all one needs is a pin.

I'm not sure that I'm your mate ....as I said, some people are determined to disprove something which hasn't yet been proven.

 

[user 20297]

Just shows you that the majority on here are sensible beekeepers who prefer facts rather than believe in fairy tales

I wouldn't go so far as to say, "the majority", , but we are so sensible that we're putting forward arguments against someone who isn't even present here to make his own case.

 

[Finman]

As Max Delbruck once observed, ‘any living cell carries with it the experiences of a billion years of experimentation by its ancestors’.
It will be interesting to see DNA analysis results and see how they compare to known A.m.m. bees DNA. Of course these bees also need to conform to an extraordinary signature that makes them unique to the British Isles, or Blenhiem.

Mac Delbruck does not know what he is talking about.

Why British Isles needs unique DNA code?

Are you sure that British Isles existed
1000 000 000 years ago?

 

[user 20297]

Mac Delbruck does not know what he is talking about.

Why British Isles needs unique DNA code?

Yes, I don't need a Nobel Prize to know all that stuff about replication and genetic structures is a load of nonsense.

 

[Finman]

8

Yes, I don't need a Nobel Prize to know

Surely you would take it if somebody offers it to you?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I wouldn't go so far as to say, "the majority", , but we are so sensible that we're putting forward arguments against someone who isn't even present here to make his own case.

Is that not allowed?
I must say that if it weren't it would stymie much discussion on this forum

 

[user 20297]

Is that not allowed?
I must say that if it weren't it would stymie much discussion on this forum

Good point....I didn't express that well. I'm meaning, no-one is pushing the idea but there's a continued kickback against it. The native bee is dead, long live the native bee.

 

[Martinreed]

some people are determined to disprove aprove something which hasn't yet been proven.
[/QUOTE]