Sudden Colony death

[Buzzo]

Hi
Inspected 2 weeks ago ,and checking today found the whole colony dead,with some bees almost "frozen " in position on top of frames.


Any ideas ? they had been taking fondant ok.

Thanks

B.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You need to give us more info and some pictures of the frames.
How many bees? Varroa treatment history? Queenright? Would do for a start.

 

[pargyle]

What did you see in your inspection two weeks ago ... and what was your reason for inspecting them at that point ? Was there something worrying you about them ?

 

[enrico]

Any food in the hive or were they relying on the fondant?

 

[Buzzo]

thanks ,they were reliant on fondant. will take pics of frames -is Nosema a possible cause ?

i last checked quickly -top only- two weeks ago to check they were taking fondant and they were.

 

[Boston Bees]

thanks ,they were reliant on fondant. will take pics of frames -is Nosema a possible cause ?

i last checked quickly -top only- two weeks ago to check they were taking fondant and they were.

Bees can't survive just on a slab of fondant over very cold snaps, as we have had recently, as they can't all move up to the fondant - they have to stay with the brood to keep it warm. This is why they need stores in the frames themselves.

I can see a frame of undrawn foundation there, and no obvious stores in the frames, but the camera angle might be misleading. You presumably hadn't put an empty super on recently, given you were still feeding fondant?

Re Nosema, we can't say anything without pictures of frames, but the most likely causes of death are usually starvation (fondant or not), varroa-born disease, or a failed queen, with nosema a very very distant 5th or 10th.

 

[andrew_r]

Looks like the queen on top of the frame.

 

[Buzzo]

yes ,the queen was found at the top of the frame with attendants. and there were no stores,so they were 100% reliant on the fondant.
it was the fact they appeared "frozen" in position (not dead on the floor) .some were dead even in the fondant bag .

 

[Bear]

starvation. Today I found 1 of my hives dead. They starved. Had fondant on top of the crown board and had brood in all stages, even eggs, they just couldn’t get through this cold snap, fed the rest syrup as the forecast with me ain’t great. Had been giving them small doses of syrup but the cold snap lasted so long I couldn’t go into them to give them more syrup.

 

[Wilco]

Not much to add to what others have said although some of it is misfortune of the timing of the cold snap at around the time crossover was happening.

Put the queen in some vodka to make a swarm lure for a month or two's time.

 

[Arfermo]

starvation. Today I found 1 of my hives dead. They starved. Had fondant on top of the crown board and had brood in all stages, even eggs, they just couldn’t get through this cold snap, fed the rest syrup as the forecast with me ain’t great. Had been giving them small doses of syrup but the cold snap lasted so long I couldn’t go into them to give them more syrup.

I ALWAYS place fondant on top of the brood frames within a shallow eke and under the crown-board, never above it.

 

[enrico]

I agree Fermo. If you are using it as a ' just in case' then on top of crown board will do but if you are using it as ' the only food' then they need to have it adjacent to the frames. In fact I would have use syrup. They can move that to where they need it, round the brood. You ended up with bees trying to keep warm by feeding and failing. Oh well! Lessons learnt.

 

[madasafish]

Fondant in clingfilm to keep it soft, on topbars in winter and spring- ALWAYS for mini nucs .Too weak to go into feeders,
That is THE secret of overwintering in small nucs in cold areas.

 

[Buzzo]

photo of one frame attached.thanks.

 

[Boston Bees]

photo of one frame attached.thanks.View attachment 31280

Thanks

There may be some other things going on, such as varroa, or a failing queen, but we don't really have to go into that because the one certainty is that there is no food at all in the frame, so they would probably have starved even if they were perfectly healthy.

It happens to beginners, and to non-beginners too, so just learn from it for next winter and move on. Almost everyone starves a colony once - the important thing is to only do it once!

Weigh your hive now, when there are no bees in, just empty comb. Write down the answer and store it for next year. By the start of next winter (i.e. the end of October this year), the hive must weigh at least, say, 20kg more than this excluding the weight of any fondant you have on top of the frames. Then you can be pretty confident that you won't see a repeat of this.

 

[user 819]

The primary will be starvation with no stores in the frames, nosema, varroa can have an effect but ultimately no food means dead bees.
If one isn't wet feeding in Autumn for winter stores to be laid up then if fondant feeding one needs to go large and give them a whole 12.5kg to demolish and store before Autumns end.

 

[user 819]

I have had one dead out to isolation starvation back in late Jan or early Feb, good stores in the BB but the bees simply hadn't transferred across the adj frames because of brood laid up.