Strange queen

[Robbo8916]

Aww bless her she's cute. RIP mini queen. On the plus side you got a good video of a waggle dance �� (3 minutes top left) ��

 

[Obee1]

This bee keeping is a steep learning curve - and if you care about it, it seems to stay steep - respect for sharing this Obee1!

Yes the bee inspector was rather excited to see this video. Great example of laying worker, apparently their abdomens do get a bit pointy. Inspector instantly spotted it was a laying worker. Her first question was what colour are the bees legs. If they are not brown or reddish she isnt a queen. This bee has black legs.

 

[busybee53]

Be wary of shaking bees with DWV onto the floor. If they gain entry to another colony they could take DWV with them and put a good colony at risk. The season Bee Inspector advised me to cull a similar colony with washing up liquid as there 'were not more than a cup full' of them.

 

[Erichalfbee]

DWV is not passed directly from bee to bee but by varroa

 

[Tremyfro]

DWV is not passed directly from bee to bee but by varroa

The bees with DWV that I have seen have such withered wings they wouldn't be able to fly....so they would perish outside the hive.
I didn't see them in the hive but on the landing board at the entrance...I think they all fell off into the grass. I wonder if they carry out nurse bee duties during that stage of their lives?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Of course they can't fly and I should have added that to busybee's reply so in that case pose no threat. My point was that dwv is a virus inoculated by biting varroa not by contact or trophylaxis. That is more important to understand than whether shaking out a severely diminished colony is dangerous.

 

[kazmcc]

They are jostling her a lot, almost like they are going to ball her but not quite doing so. Interesting video Obee1, thanks for posting. I've never seen a laying worker before.

 

[Tremyfro]

Of course they can't fly and I should have added that to busybee's reply so in that case pose no threat. My point was that dwv is a virus inoculated by biting varroa not by contact or trophylaxis. That is more important to understand than whether shaking out a severely diminished colony is dangerous.

 

[Obee1]

They are jostling her a lot, almost like they are going to ball her but not quite doing so. Interesting video Obee1, thanks for posting. I've never seen a laying worker before.

Yes I really thought they were going to ball her - which is why I filmed for so long. I was quite disappointed that they didn't. That would have been a cool video!
Thw waggle dance is the bit that has me puzzled. I thought waggle dances were done on a vertical comb in the dark - but that comb was horizontal and in the sunlight. All fascinating stuff.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Waggle dances are done on special area of the comb that have been charmingly dubbed"dance floors"
They are marked by the bees on a daily basis. It doesn't matter how the frame is orientated. An excited forager caught dancing in the dark will continue to do so when exposed by the beekeeper's interference.

 

[BeeJayBee]

It's a brilliant video, one worth keeping.

My freebie Welsh virgin I helped emerge was popped in a nuc previously used for hosting a queen. ...

Yes the bee inspector was rather excited to see this video. Great example of laying worker ...

Have you any idea what happened to the queen you helped out of her queen cell?

 

[beeno]

Well, she is it and is that not the weak link in this argument. Laying workers are not born, their ovaries develop in response to Q- after 3+ weeks. I helped a few bees with very short pointed abdomens out of small emergency queen cells and they looked just like that. A lot of native black queens have black legs. Just checked and marked one of mine. She is not that black, the lowest part of her legs were reddish brown though. Don't buy that it is a laying worker, but a poorly fed larva and badly constructed QC.

 

[REDWOOD]

waste of blue paint

 

[Obee1]

Well, she is it and is that not the weak link in this argument. Laying workers are not born, their ovaries develop in response to Q- after 3+ weeks. I helped a few bees with very short pointed abdomens out of small emergency queen cells and they looked just like that. A lot of native black queens have black legs. Just checked and marked one of mine. She is not that black, the lowest part of her legs were reddish brown though. Don't buy that it is a laying worker, but a poorly fed larva and badly constructed QC.

I agree. Been thinking about this - Just where did she come from? The nuc had been established a while back for another queen who was given free reign in there for a few weeks and had laid eggs. That queen (36b) was removed 16 July and nuc left Q- for two days only. Then I introduced the freebie black queen in travelling cage and then the bees chewed her out. I left well alone for 2 weeks and looked in to find a few eggs. Assumed all was well with freebie queen. Thereafter never could find her but double/ triple eggs appeared at cell bases. These have now become drone brood. However when I did that look in after 2 weeks I think there was a torn down QC - Therefore a new queen was being produced from 36b eggs. The fact it was torn down suggests freebie queen did it. Or that newly made queen did in freebie queen? Either way the nuc was never Q- long enough for workers to develop into DLW. So I go round in circles. If that's a scrub queen the only oddity is black legs? If she's DLW how would that happen in a nuc that's not been queenless.
Big question is do the worker bees groom and fuss over DLW the way that these bees are doing?

 

[Obee1]

waste of blue paint

Not at all. I wanted to watch and learn from this little bee. I had seen her a few times - I thought - but wanted to be sure it was the same bee I was spotting. Hence the marking. Incidentally I caught her in a one handed queen catcher and she escaped through the bars and flew off. Came back within a minute. She was too small to pick up wearing marigolds so had to mark on the comb.

Not a waste in my book. Being a newbie I don't mind 'wasting my time -or blue paint' with experimental nucs or queens that are probably doomed to failure. Following their progress, or lack of, is a good way to learn.

 

[rolande]

If she's DLW how would that happen in a nuc that's not been queenless.

Worker policing, worker reproduction, and nepotism in honey bees

 

[BeeJayBee]

Have you any idea what happened to the queen you helped out of her queen cell?

Well, she is it and is that not the weak link in this argument. .... Don't buy that it is a laying worker, but a poorly fed larva and badly constructed QC.

There's no argument about what's on the video, it was just a simple question to try to work out how it may have happened. Reading Obee1's account it seems likely to remain unsolved. But that shiny black bee is not a queen, it's a worker - a worker that's been over-groomed, has a slightly enlarged abdomen because she's now laying eggs, and she also a nicely placed blue dot or two.

Either way the nuc was never Q- long enough for workers to develop into DLW. So I go round in circles.

It'll be one of those mysteries of beekeeping that you'll probably never, ever, see again, so it's a story you can 'dine out on' in the future.

 

[B+.]

Not a waste in my book.

Just think where you were this time last year and how much you have learned. I'd say you've not wasted your time at all.

 

[B+.]

36b was removed 16 July and nuc left Q- for two days only. Then I introduced the freebie black queen in travelling cage and then the bees chewed her out. I left well alone for 2 weeks and looked in to find a few eggs. Assumed all was well with freebie queen. Thereafter never could find her but double/ triple eggs appeared at cell bases. These have now become drone brood. However when I did that look in after 2 weeks I think there was a torn down QC

They know they're queenless in a very short time. Two days is more than enough time for them to start emergency cells. What they did after this is anyones guess as your freebie black queen wasn't marked before introduction. Was she a mated queen? I lost track of all your queen movements.

 

[Obee1]

Was she a mated queen? I lost track of all your queen movements.

You and me both! Actually I do know which queen is which as I keep good notes. The queen in question I helped emerge from a swarm cell in bee inspectors hive. Put her in 36bs vacated nuc within one hour of emerging. Definitely a virgin when she went in there.
I can't quite work out how they did it but they seem to have ended up with a DLW instead - wearing a very pretty blue marking pattern if I may say so!