Splitting to a standard from 14x12?

[felixflyer]

I got my first hive last year and it has not only made it through winter but is absolutely thriving. I did my first inspection and it was packed with bees. Lots of honey in the brood and the super I left on over winter almost full of honey.

I want to split as I have another hive ready to go. The problem is my hive in use is 14x12 and my spare one is a normal national. I don't have any queen cells yet so what would be the best method to populate my standard from my 14x12?

My current bees are very placid and have done so well with honey and through winter i'd like the new queen to be from the old one if possible.

Many thanks

 

[pargyle]

You don't need queen cells in order to split a colony - once you split they will make queen cells in the queenless hive .. I'd still leave it a week or two before splitting.

Do you have drawn frames in your std national or are they empty frames ?

If not, I would put a couple of standard national frames in your thriving 14 x 12 and get them drawn out - with the amount of forage around at present they should draw them out in no time - and if you put them in amongst the existing brood frames they will fill them with brood - you then have the makings of a Nuc (or a dummied down national). You can use the super frames as food for the nuc. So your new colony would be your newly drawn frames with some eggs in the frames, a couple of super frame of stores and a frame of foundation for them to draw out. You can work out the mismatched frames as they become established - they will build free comb on the bottom of the shallows but that's really not a problem.

If your spare hive has drawn brood frames then all you have to do is a Demaree. Plenty of information in here on how to Demaree for increase.

But .. its a PITA to have mismatched kit .. as you have discovered - decide which hive format you are going to use in the long term and stick with it.

 

[felixflyer]

Thanks,

Its a brand new hive so all the frames in it are bare foundation. I do however already have a drawn standard in my 14X12 as I use it to cut down on Varroa so I could use that. I have a standard Nuc too so your method sounds perfect.

I was told though that if I make them queenless then the emergency queen would not be very good. Is this true? Wouldn't that apply to the new nuc I create?

Also, how far would I need to move the nuc from the old hive as I only have one site at the moment.

I intend to only buy 14X12 from now on but i'd like to use this as I have it.

Thanks

 

[pargyle]

Thanks,

Its a brand new hive so all the frames in it are bare foundation. I do however already have a drawn standard in my 14X12 as I use it to cut down on Varroa so I could use that. I have a standard Nuc too so your method sounds perfect.

I was told though that if I make them queenless then the emergency queen would not be very good. Is this true? Wouldn't that apply to the new nuc I create?

Rubbish ... as long as you have fresh eggs on the frame in the made up Nuc she will not be a scrub queen .. of course, the quality of her offspring and her longevity will be dependent upon how well and with what drones she gets mated.

Also, how far would I need to move the nuc from the old hive as I only have one site at the moment.

Just to one side is fine - you transfer the nurse bees on the frames of brood you put into the Nuc - the flyers will return to the original hive which is why you need to have stores in the Nuc - or to feed them until they build up.

I intend to only buy 14X12 from now on but i'd like to use this as I have it.

Thanks

SORRY - easier to just answer the questions in your post.

 

[Angry_Mob]

How are you with woodwork assuming its a wooden hive? Could make a wooden eke for the national hive to make it 14x12 which will keep everything the same.

Or the suppliers sell them.

E.g
https://bee-equipment.co.uk/products/14-x-12-eke-flat-cedar

 

[felixflyer]

I did think about that but its full of frames and foundation and ready to go. I also have a standard nuc so might as well make use of it all and have this one standard setup.

 

[Angry_Mob]

You can get frame extenders for nationals frames as well and could eke the nuc, like Pargyle says it's a PITA to run different frame sizes, especially when going from 14x12 to national.

https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=4481