Splits

[ladaok]

I could split a Langstroth into 4 with a Q each and rehouse as room dictates

I could do the same but split in 2, then split those in 2 again as room dictates = 4

Assuming no hiccups, which route gets me to the goal of a productive hive 1st

 

[Beefriendly]

I could split a Langstroth into 4 with a Q each and rehouse as room dictates

I could do the same but split in 2, then split those in 2 again as room dictates = 4

Assuming no hiccups, which route gets me to the goal of a productive hive 1st

Not splitting the original hive.....

 

[ladaok]

Not splitting the original hive.....

Ah yes, but not necessarily, that one hive could come unstuck and then you have ? ....but stupid me, I never covered all my bases

 

[Finman]

I could split a Langstroth into 4 with a Q each and rehouse as room dictates

Yeah. It is easy with table saw, when hive is poly. I prefer to split langstroth box to three.

I have splitted a colony to 11 parts the hive, which reared the queens. Every Split must have a piece of brood. Otherwise a split to seek for better home.

 

[mickbees23]

Not splitting the original hive.....

 

[ladaok]

Yeah. It is easy with table saw, when hive is poly. I prefer to split langstroth box to three.

I have splitted a colony to 11 parts the hive, which reared the queens. Every Split must have a piece of brood. Otherwise a split to seek for better home.

So, from the original question, which system would reach the goal 1st

 

[foghornleghorn]

So, from the original question, which system would reach the goal 1st

If it was a very strong double brood split in 4 straight off, otherwise the second way would be better imo

 

[Finman]

So, from the original question, which system would reach the goal 1st

I do not split productive hives. Short summer, you know. I join weak hives for main yield.

I did not understand the original question, because I do not know, what are you doing.

 

[oliver90owner]

If you were based in the UK, you would likely not get a productive hive this season, because it will be at least another six weeks until decent numbers of new foragers become available and will see off the best part of the foraging season. That is assuming each of the splits has a laying queen, not a virgin

But you are not, so yours might have a good foraging flow later in the season.

Best way to achieve a productive colony sooest (after effectively destroying one) would be to reinforce one colony with all the emerging brood and young bees that could be spared from the other three. The other three likely would require extra feeding, dependent on flow, to raise the laying rate of the queens.

Not a sensible plan, really. Better to wait for swarming preparations and requeen the parent colony with a young mated queen, thus retaining a productive colony. Expcting to divide a colony into 4 units is simply asking too much.

Surplus honey or increased colony numbers is possible, but not normally both. That is a long accepted principle of beekeeping. Trying to reinvent the wheel is not a good exercise and most likely a waste of time.

 

[colinc]

They need to build up after a split before they become productive. The fewer splits the sooner they will be productive. The more you split it the smaller the foraging workforce is.

I think that’s what people above are pointing you towards.



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[Finman]

.
New Zealand yields are not so good, that it is worth to take example from their "systems".

To split langstroth box to 4 is to me a mating nuc.

 

[Vortex]

I agree with the sentiments expressed by others.
I run Brood+half Langstroth and even when I split due to swam prep I never take more than 2 nucs off the parent. These are always 1 frame capped brood, 1 frame ELB in all stages, 1 frame with QC (usually from the half) and 1 frame stores.
Occasionally I accidentally move the queen but this can lead to a short term mass increase in their foraging rate until the new virgin hatches and comes into lay. Since the nucs are always moved more than 3 miles returning flyers to the original colony is not an issue.

 

[ladaok]

Ok, I see the problem ...we are literally worlds away. The way you tend to your livestock is different in many aspects,... because of climatic conditions Mid August in my area ( Bay of Plenty ...a name given to the area by your Captain Cook) hives are tune-ing themselves up . By beginning to mid September ... things are starting to really smoke and pollen retrieval is up to 30+ bees a minute ... hard to define, but main swarming is possible from October through to December. and beyond .... I try and get walk away splits done early February ... Some fella's depending on season and area, are still bring nectar on board in March.

So now having give you an idea of our season ( which of course is in the lap of the gods )
...back to the original question ( and let's forget about honey production) Is a 4 way split going to beat a 2 way. then 2 way again ( at a later date ) and all hives with added Q's

 

[Finman]

.
You have not told, why you split them?

Walk away splits are madness: Emergency queens, most poor quality, no selective quality, waste of brood cycle time. The nuc size will go to half, before new bees start to emerge. If you give a Queen to the nuc, during same time nucs get two brood cycles.


.

 

[ladaok]

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You have not told, why you split them?
.

To increase hive numbers, I should be @ 100 odd hives 2 years ago, but I have been losing nearly 50% of hives for the last 3 years, I thought it was poor b/king on my part ! ...I have since found that other b/kers are in the same boat, which turns out to be poor mating ....

https://www.beeworks.com/slow-hives/ ...maybe ?

 

[Finman]

.
Is varroa killing your hives?

Poor mating cannot be a problem in NZ

 

[Eyeman]

Here is an interesting article which looks at the speed at which nucs buildup.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ru8pyer6yjbg8xv/Modelling nuc buildup.pdf?dl=0

 

[Finman]

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By Randy Oliver California. There temps may be in December 25C.

Relevant knowledge to everyone.

My nuc rearing season is 2 months long.
The third month would be possible, but there is no flowers and pollen then (August).

.
.

 

[mbc]

Splitting and splitting again is less preferable to my mind than splitting then all early and letting them build from there, subsequent splits would have to be judged carefully not to have a poor balance of bee ages.

 

[Finman]

balance of bee ages.

That is very important thing in colony build up. The bigger the cluster, the more it can make brood.

3 frame nuc can do practically one full frame of brood. The Queen can lay a frame full in couple of days, and the it can do nothing during next 3 weeks.