Split a hive?

[AB1978]

Hi,

I'm very new to beekeeping having inherited a hive and bees when I bought my house in July 2013. It's taken me until now to really try to organise myself.

The hive lay out doesn't look usual to me as there is a brood box, 2x supers, queen excluder then another 2x supers.

I've removed the frames from the top super (all full of granulated honey) but am a bit confused about what to do next. I was planning on ensuring the queen etc is in the brood box, putting the excluder on top of the brood box then a super with new frames & foundation on top of the excluder.

However, someone I bought some equipment from said that I should split the hive (I have a new hive available) but now that's confused me further!

I've joined the local geeking association and contacted them but haven't had a response back yet.

Any thoughts gratefully received!!

 

[dn170221]

Fair play to you for getting started.
If possible get some help with the first inspection.
I would be more inclined to have a look at what is in there before deciding what to do. You may have enough bees etc for a split but you may not!

I would say form a plan for your first inspection,:
Check there are stores
Check there is a queen
check for signs of swarming
check there is room for the queen to lay (have spare frames in case you need to free up a honey bound brood area.)

Then take stock and formulate a plan based on your findings.

Just my thoughts!

 

[isc26]

If you do decide to split. Have a look at this video which highlights the Pagden method of artificial swarming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQPQj_UhmMk

A reference book such as Ted Hooper - Guide to the bees & Honey, Cive De Bruyn - Practical Beekeeping or Haynes Beekeeping Manual would be a real assett to you right now.

 

[Finman]

.
Arrange the hive first. Splitting does not help you. It makes to your trouple.

Arrange brood frames into one box, or two.
Look how dark are brood combs.
Give brood foundations to be drawn during summer. Anyway you will need new brood combs.

Arrange super frames, that bees do not store new honey on crystallized. You cannot extract honey if new honey crystallizes in combs.

Spray water mist over crystalls and bees lick combs clean.

Take extra boxes off, and give more boxes when colony expands and need more room.

Inspect weekly for swarming cells
.

 

[Excession]

Have you inspected it at all in the last 2 years?

Have you inspected it now?

What did you see?

I would be tempted to put a new brood box on the bottom with fresh combs and a new floor, find the queen and put her in it with one or two of the old combs, put queen excluder on it. Then put back on top any boxes with brood in it (assuming you know what you are looking for) and remove any boxes without brood in it. (Especially those two supers)

In 21days all the brood above the excluder will have emerged and you will be able to remove the old boxes and replace them with a nice clean super or two. (Shaking any bees off)

I am assuming here that all the old comb is dark and dirty and needs replacing anyway. And the boxes are old and need care, and the reason you bought the new hive was to rehome them.

Next get the Haynes manual for beekeeping, and read it during those 21 days!

Enjoy your bees.

 

[itma]

I'd also suggest the Haynes manual. ASAP.
The Hooper book is excellent, but would be pretty incomprehensible to you right now.


The bees are going to need to be shifted onto clean frames and new wax foundation.
And, if they haven't been treated for varroa for (at least) a couple of years, that need is also a racing certainty. (But something you might begin by checking for...)
I'd suggest that really these are things that you need help with.
Hence I'd suggest phoning the secretary of your local association and begging for the assistance of a mentor to help and guide you through the fast-approaching fastest-paced part of the beekeeping year.
There will be lots to do and your doing it will be enough to handle, rather than additionally working out what needs doing, then how to do it and above all, what needs doing most urgently.
/// Your mentor should be able to confirm compatibility of your new and old kit - and give a view on what you might additionally need.



The priorities I would expect would be to ensure the health of the bees, and then preventing them from swarming.
Dividing the colony for the sake of increasing to two colonies isn't going to help you (though temporary division to prevent swarming may be needed).
Swarm control is why you need a spare hive (or two spares if you have two colonies).

/// Before being 'corrected' on this - two hives is a long-term sustainable minimum, but probably more than you should be trying to cope with before taking a course, etc ...

 

[oliver90owner]

Some good advice above.

I might favour a different order of operations, but never mind.

Bees need to be on clean brood wax, I would think, but not necessarily that important as to be first priority.

Varroa most likely needs addressing initially, possibly urgently. Secondly, a question of how you propose splitting - are you going to buy in a mated queen? If not, forget splitting for a while - your new queen may not get properly mated, or mated at all!

Far better to split after the OSR if that is a crop available, but they may be ready to swarm by then.

A plea to your BKA for some immediate help or for a mentor would not go amiss.

Before you inspect the hive, you should at least know what you are looking for. All good beekeeping books would be a help for that.

Welcome to the forum, btw. Just remember that while there is usually more than one way to achieve an objective, some advice may not be well thought out, or even downright incorrect.

RAB

 

[Finman]

Bees need to be on clean brood wax, I would think, but not necessarily that important as to be first priority.

NOt at all. Brood frames are now what they are. Old brood frames does not make the colony sick.

Secondly, a question of how you propose splitting - are you going to buy in a mated queen? If not, forget splitting for a while - your new queen may not get properly mated, or mated at all!

He just started beekeeping few days ago and now he must do that and that and that.

but they may be ready to swarm by then.

Swarming will be very obvious and propably mites are bad, mite treatment is good to start it AS.

 

[Cussword]

The thing is, you can ask three beekeepers a question & receive four answers, all of them will be right. I suggest that you take the advice of one of the above & stick to it.
Also, as above get in touch with your club, you need help ASAP!

 

[DaveS]

I am not sure why you would want to split them - as a new bee keeper if possible I would try to stick to one hive for your first season. If they start preparation for swarming then you may have no choice but until then sort out the existing colony as per suggestions above -treatment and comb change.

 

[itma]

...
Bees need to be on clean brood wax, I would think, but not necessarily that important as to be first priority.
...

When I said that ensuring the health of the bees would be my first priority, I was actually meaning that a health check (proper brood inspection at least) should be performed by someone knowledgable - BEFORE investing time, money and materials.
Sorry not to have been clearer.
But a move onto clean wax would probably be called for once the colony and weather are both at appropriate levels. And would definitely help the colony's health

 

[Finman]

But a move onto clean wax would probably be called for once the colony and weather are both at appropriate levels. And would definitely help the colony's health

I do not understand that "clean wax idea". What healt, what disease?

Brood combs become at once brown when first generation of brood is in cells. There is no clean wax in brood cells. Cells have a wallpaper of pupa silk layers. That is bees' life.

A larva stage is almost week. After 5 days feeding bees cap the cell. After 6,5 days larva make a droplet of poo into the bottom of cell. Then it makes silk layer around itself.


Basics of beekeeping.
.

 

[AB1978]

Thanks for all your replies, I've a call out with the local BKA & will plea for a mentor!

I've had a look as far down as the super below the excluder but stopped when I realised I needed a mentor!

Depending on weather, I'll have a look tomorrow & try to track down the queen. I'll be happier when someone who knows what they are doing shows me what to do

 

[oliver90owner]

Do not try to track down the queen. Pointless, unless you intend to make some manipulation involving same. Knowing she is there is otherwise sufficient!

Wait until you, or someone, knows what they are doing, is my advice.

 

[AB1978]

Just been contacted by the local BKA& they are coming out this week to help. Thanks for all your help

 

[Excession]

That's great news, but don't just hand over the reins there.
Now starts your learning curve.
Get the Beek to explain what they are doing and why.
Make sure they let you get your hands dirty.
And read read read.
You've just started a very exciting journey.

 

[pargyle]

Just been contacted by the local BKA& they are coming out this week to help. Thanks for all your help

An hour with an experienced beekeeper alongside your hive will teach you so much ... basics: Get them to show you ...

How to pick up and view frames,using your hive tool.

BIAS Brood in all Stages - that will tell you the queen is there - get them to show you eggs, larvae and capped cells.

Point out worker bees and drones (if you get to see the queen it's just a bonus - as has been said, don't go looking - not essential if you have BIAS).

Point out honey cells before and after capping, pollen cells, any cells with brood disease - chalk brood for instance.

Any bees that have DWV (likely if the colony is infested with varroa - but, it may not be).

After that get them to get the 'stack' in some sort of shape ready for the season - you may need some more frames in due course or you may be looking at just cutting out any comb from filled frames in the honey supers to give them some space to work with.

Checking for varroa is important so, if the hive has space for an inspection board, now would be a good time to put it in and see what the drop is.

There are lots of things you will need to know as time draws on but don't try to absorb it all in one go .. if you get the basics above under your belt then it will buy you a bit of time.

And read a bee book ... Hooper is a bit too wordy for a first bee book (There are some that will disagree) - The Haynes Manual will tell you enough in fewer words and with more pictures ...

Good luck and welcome to the forum. (The BEST beekeeping forum).