Some observations two days after newspaper unite.

[magor]

IMO, the Q+ hive should go on top on its stand. The Q+ bees go down through the paper past the Q- bees. Q+ is safe in the top box in her own cluster and not intruded on by the Q- bees. This way has always worked well for me

jep

foragers are the most difficult bees accept a new Q and new nurse bees , your way do all this separation and also keep all the Q+ foragers who through them pheromones ll unite bees in ''peace''

 

[enrico]

Which hive you move to which stand might be the answer to why Dani has no returning bees to the empty site whilst I do! Just a thought! I honestly never bother which hive goes on top or beneath or which I put on which stand! Never had any real problems other than bees flying to the empty site!

 

[Cole lynch]

Can I jump on this bandwagon
I just united a Q+ nuc on top of a Q- hive that has 2 Supers on.
I just left them in situ n placed the new BB on top of the Supers.
then it struck me that I’ve created some sort of wierd reverse Demeré
Should I have emptied the bees from the Supers & taken them off?
TIA

 

[Sutty]

Can I jump on this bandwagon
I just united a Q+ nuc on top of a Q- hive that has 2 Supers on.
I just left them in situ n placed the new BB on top of the Supers.
then it struck me that I’ve created some sort of wierd reverse Demeré
Should I have emptied the bees from the Supers & taken them off?
TIA

Not really a demaree if the queenless half has no eggs or young brood, otherwise they will probably still try to raise queen cells & you'll need to go back & remove them.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Can I jump on this bandwagon
I just united a Q+ nuc on top of a Q- hive that has 2 Supers on.
I just left them in situ n placed the new BB on top of the Supers.
then it struck me that I’ve created some sort of wierd reverse Demeré
Should I have emptied the bees from the Supers & taken them off?
TIA

I routinely unite through supers. They are ok the way you’ve done it.

 

[Cole lynch]

I routinely unite through supers. They are ok the way you’ve done it.

Thank you that’s a relief to hear
Obviously I’m a greenhorn lol

 

[Cole lynch]

Not really a demaree if the queenless half has no eggs or young brood, otherwise they will probably still try to raise queen cells & you'll need to go back & remove them.

Yeh
What I was getting at was would the 2 Supers interfere with HRH’s fairy moans getting down to the bees in the bottom box that I want to accept her.
I didn’t want to think ok Theyve chewed through the paper and it’s done, then put the 2 BBs together and WHAM! the bottom bees ball her.
Dya get me?

 

[Sutty]

Yeh
What I was getting at was would the 2 Supers interfere with HRH’s fairy moans getting down to the bees in the bottom box that I want to accept her.
I didn’t want to think ok Theyve chewed through the paper and it’s done, then put the 2 BBs together and WHAM! the bottom bees ball her.
Dya get me?

I've only ever United BB to BB, but the opinion on the forum has been the supers don't matter. I guess once they are mixing and colony scent well mixed it should be fine. I'd still remove QCs in bottom box before putting BBs together.

 

[Cole lynch]

I routinely unite through supers. They are ok the way you’ve done it.

Just one more Question
When uniting through Supers. Do you/would you use Queen excluder to retain the Queen in the top box to prevent her getting into the Supers
Or just have to locate her wherever she ends up after all is said n done?

 

[Cole lynch]

I've only ever United BB to BB, but the opinion on the forum has been the supers don't matter. I guess once they are mixing and colony scent well mixed it should be fine. I'd still remove QCs in bottom box before putting BBs together.

Bottom BB is hopelessly queenless here

 

[Sutty]

I'd put a QE under top BB - at least you know where she is when you reassemble after uniting! Could then put Q+ box on the bottom with QE over knowing she is in it Q- box on that & supers above. Then you only have to inspect 1 BB until she needs more space.

 

[Sutty]

Bottom BB is hopelessly queenless here

Sorry - I'd missed the "hopelessly" bit!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just one more Question
When uniting through Supers. Do you/would you use Queen excluder to retain the Queen in the top box to prevent her getting into the Supers
Or just have to locate her wherever she ends up after all is said n done?

Yes. I end up with two QXs
When I consolidate I first find the queen and put the frame she is on in a nuc box. Then I can put all the frames together, leave a gap in the middle and pop her in last

 

[user 20297]

There's now't to it, this uniting this through newspaper!

 

[Swarm]

I united two about a week ago, a 2020 queen in a double nuc with a queenless lot with a super. Transferred the double nuc into a brood box, paper, excluder, a few slits, then moved the other on top. When I took off the bottom excluder, I had a perfect, picture frame of paper left. I've not checked them since then but they look happy enough.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

hould I have emptied the bees from the Supers & taken them off?

no

 

[elainemary]

@Beebe i read an interesting paper by Ralph Buchler recently, mainly about queen rearing but also uniting 2 colonies when one queen is to be removed. So slightly different situation to yours but nonetheless one queenless and one queen right to be united.

His advice was to cage the recipients queen first, for a week. Didn’t say why but I presume as her pheromone is reduced maybe gives the message the queen is starting to fail, so more receptive to uniting. Then unite after removing her in the cage.

He goes on in the paper to also recommend putting the nuc / Q+ colony with the mated queen you want to introduce / unite, above a double screen with the recipient colony below first before uniting. He states this has even more success at 95%-100%. Again doesn’t say why but I presume as there is mixing of colony odours, but no trophallaxis, the introduction is really slowed down. Why don’t authors of insightful work give a behavioural explanation behind their research!?

I have a colony that has a new queen but 6 weeks on from emergence she isn’t laying yet though I’ve seen her and she’s mated. They’re a feisty bunch that follow, hence the attempt at requeening so my next tack if this queen doesn’t start laying next week is to follow Ralph Buchler advice.

Queen introduction seems to be one of the trickiest areas of beekeeping, when a colony has either feistier bees or more than the usual proportion of older bees

 

[user 20297]

@Beebe i read an interesting paper by Ralph Buchler recently, mainly about queen rearing but also uniting 2 colonies when one queen is to be removed. So slightly different situation to yours but nonetheless one queenless and one queen right to be united.

His advice was to cage the recipients queen first, for a week. Didn’t say why but I presume as her pheromone is reduced maybe gives the message the queen is starting to fail, so more receptive to uniting. Then unite after removing her in the cage.

He goes on in the paper to also recommend putting the nuc / Q+ colony with the mated queen you want to introduce / unite, above a double screen with the recipient colony below first before uniting. He states this has even more success at 95%-100%. Again doesn’t say why but I presume as there is mixing of colony odours, but no trophallaxis, the introduction is really slowed down. Why don’t authors of insightful work give a behavioural explanation behind their research!?

I have a colony that has a new queen but 6 weeks on from emergence she isn’t laying yet though I’ve seen her and she’s mated. They’re a feisty bunch that follow, hence the attempt at requeening so my next tack if this queen doesn’t start laying next week is to follow Ralph Buchler advice.

Queen introduction seems to be one of the trickiest areas of beekeeping, when a colony has either feistier bees or more than the usual proportion of older bees

If such a procedure has a guaranteed, high success rate, then it's obviously a tempting approach. But the beauty of newspaper uniting as described by many of the respected beekeeping advisors is that it's (supposed to be) simple and reliable.

My limited experience is that despite my misgivings, it is reliable to use newspaper. But having seen the several pieces of constructive advice and slight variations on the technique that contributors have brought to this thread, it seems likely that it's not as foolproof as had been implied to me from previous reading.

Although I will try the air-freshener technique this season, I'm already expecting to discover that it isn't quite as straightforward as the headlines imply.

 

[enrico]

Although I will try the air-freshener technique this season, I'm already expecting to discover that it isn't quite as straightforward as the headlines imply.

It certainly has been for me but just don't overdo it. A little goes a long way!

 

[magor]

He goes on in the paper to also recommend putting the nuc / Q+ colony with the mated queen you want to introduce / unite, above a double screen with the recipient colony below first before uniting. He states this has even more success at 95%-100%. Again doesn’t say why but I presume as there is mixing of colony odours, but no trophallaxis, the introduction is really slowed down. Why don’t authors of insightful work give a behavioural explanation behind their research!?

Queen introduction seems to be one of the trickiest areas of beekeeping, when a colony has either feistier bees or more than the usual proportion of older bees

guess may some info missing here

i think that this paper talks about makin a nuc from same colony above(QE) and you use next day the double screen but with entrance (snelgrove?) so as separate in nuc the forages(will go back to bottom entrance and box) and nurse bees that nuc will keep and whom will accept a new Q introduction more easy and you also keep the odours to re unite after

when unite different stand colonies then you want all forages from Q you like to keep and move free so that colony stays on its stand and you want also Q be protected with her nurse bees so she goes above newspaper