Some observations two days after newspaper unite.

[jenkinsbrynmair]

what a load of faff made out of a fairly straighforward and simple procedure

 

[elainemary]

If such a procedure has a guaranteed, high success rate, then it's obviously a tempting approach. But the beauty of newspaper uniting as described by many of the respected beekeeping advisors is that it's (supposed to be) simple and reliable.

My limited experience is that despite my misgivings, it is reliable to use newspaper. But having seen the several pieces of constructive advice and slight variations on the technique that contributors have brought to this thread, it seems likely that it's not as foolproof as had been implied to me from previous reading.

Although I will try the air-freshener technique this season, I'm already expecting to discover that it isn't quite as straightforward as the headlines imply.

I had a couple of failed newspaper unites last year, like you I thought foolproof, so I tend to be quite cautious now and now try to read more about their condition and behaviour and decide from that, just how cautious to be. I’ve used air freshener twice now this season but on colonies that are related and have been apart for a shortish period. Seems to work well in that situation. Would use a lengthier process if I thought risk was higher - older bees and feistier. Have learnt with bees it’s not a case of ‘one size fits all’. The more colonies you have, the more relaxed you can be.

 

[user 20297]

guess may some info missing here

i think that this paper talks about makin a nuc from same colony above(QE) and you use next day the double screen but with entrance (snelgrove?) so as separate in nuc the forages(will go back to bottom entrance and box) and nurse bees that nuc will keep and whom will accept a new Q introduction more easy and you also keep the odours to re unite after

when unite different stand colonies then you want all forages from Q you like to keep and move free so that colony stays on its stand and you want also Q be protected with her nurse bees so she goes above newspaper

But returning foragers from Q+ colony will meet bees from the moved, Q- colony unless this is done at the end of the day.
Also, the Q+ bees are trapped above newspaper in the hottest part of the hive when they need to get out foraging.
But I will try this.

 

[magor]

But returning foragers from Q+ colony will meet bees from the moved, Q- colony unless this is done at the end of the day.
Also, the Q+ bees are trapped above newspaper in the hottest part of the hive when they need to get out foraging.
But I will try this.

the first small holes that will be opened in the newspaper the first bees ll come out will be probably the foragers and mid age bees while all nurses and Q ll stay with brood in cluster

and thats what you want to happen to use those foragers and the remain returning foragers as ''air freshener''to mix/dilute the pheromones from both hives and unite them- so not at the end of the day nor a not fly day

laden foragers will become acceptable from mid age receivers and by trophalaxis they will not only exchange nectar but also pheromones throughout them crop and antenas (when 2 bees exhange nectar others also join the ''party'' and exchange info and pheromones by antenas touches)

so we should mind pheromones(which are the main avenue of bees communication) each time we do heavy-perfumery smoke-vaps?/repeated long-lasting inspections hives

ofc there be out there many ways do things on bees and sure other ways on each occassion may be faster,easier or more suitable on each beekeeper....whatever works-works.........but what i like try do with bees is follow them them insticts/their habits each time use them do something for me and for that am trying give all my attention/importance on understand-read their biology,communication,nutricion,transformationin their various castes of adults(newly emerge ,nurses/winter,mid-age/foragers) and brood castes(2 days larvae/older larvae/pupae) and for that i call Q ,just mother and drones grandfathers who both only pass the genes but nothing more(all fertilized eggs are destined to become queens and all the non, drones)... The cells that move the filaments of a colony is plasticity bees- workers and most nurses, diet and their jelly who feed all and change their singularity/character........this plasticity is that it complicate the things and hide/corrects our mistakes or the right ones, making understanding the bees puzzle

 

[user 20297]

the first small holes that will be opened in the newspaper the first bees ll come out will be probably the foragers and mid age bees while all nurses and Q ll stay with brood in cluster

and thats what you want to happen to use those foragers and the remain returning foragers as ''air freshener''to mix/dilute the pheromones from both hives and unite them- so not at the end of the day nor a not fly day

laden foragers will become acceptable from mid age receivers and by trophalaxis they will not only exchange nectar but also pheromones throughout them crop and antenas (when 2 bees exhange nectar others also join the ''party'' and exchange info and pheromones by antenas touches)

so we should mind pheromones(which are the main avenue of bees communication) each time we do heavy-perfumery smoke-vaps?/repeated long-lasting inspections hives

ofc there be out there many ways do things on bees and sure other ways on each occassion may be faster,easier or more suitable on each beekeeper....whatever works-works.........but what i like try do with bees is follow them them insticts/their habits each time use them do something for me and for that am trying give all my attention/importance on understand-read their biology,communication,nutricion,transformationin their various castes of adults(newly emerge ,nurses/winter,mid-age/foragers) and brood castes(2 days larvae/older larvae/pupae) and for that i call Q ,just mother and drones grandfathers who both only pass the genes but nothing more(all fertilized eggs are destined to become queens and all the non, drones)... The cells that move the filaments of a colony is plasticity bees- workers and most nurses, diet and their jelly who feed all and change their singularity/character........this plasticity is that it complicate the things and hide/corrects our mistakes or the right ones, making understanding the bees puzzle

Using that explanation gave me the confidence to try this method. It's a warm, sunny day, with bees out on a big, summer flow. I had an almost filled, deep box of bees from a swarm, that were heading towards becoming a surplus hive. I saved the (excellent) queen in a nuc with a couple of frames of bees and some stores, moving the remainder as the bottom box, topped by newspaper, with all existing boxes above, on a production hive that I wish to boost. There was an initial frenzy of buzzing whilst the returning foragers encountered the slight hiccup in access arrangements, but this quickly went back to normal levels, with bees passing nectar to the strange incomers on the landing board.

For this time of year at least, I'm liking this approach which was suggested by @Michael Palmer and then the mechanics of which were explained by @magor.

 

[magor]

I had an almost filled, deep box of bees from a swarm, that were heading towards becoming a surplus hive. I saved the (excellent) queen in a nuc with a couple of frames of bees and some stores, moving the remainder as the bottom box, topped by newspaper, with all existing boxes above, on a production hive that I wish to boost.

when remove Q from a hive then colony its emergency Q less and either introduce straight a mated not stop laying Q from your apiary or if is a mated but stop laying Q like ''buy/post Qs'' you need make colony first hopelessly Queen less meaning destroy 9days after all emergency Qcells and then do cage introduce

you need keep an eye in Qless box for emergency Qcells cause you ve united un emergency Qless colony with yes though a mated no stop laying Q colony but the unite will take some time/days to happen and bottom box probably ll make emergency Qcells during that time and also may do and after unite take place cause them ll be on that fever and ll find open brood from Q+ colony above......it be said to train emergency colony into to hopelessly Queen less takes around 2 weeks(its a crushing nurses morale slow build) -1st week ends destroy all emergency Qcells give them 1open brood to make more emergency cells and then 2nd week ends after Q remove destroy them too, you do the unite

except if i ve missunderstand your manipulation and it was already a hopelessly Q colony

 

[user 20297]

when remove Q from a hive then colony its emergency Q less and either introduce straight a mated not stop laying Q from your apiary or if is a mated but stop laying Q like ''buy/post Qs'' you need make colony first hopelessly Queen less meaning destroy 9days after all emergency Qcells and then do cage introduce

you need keep an eye in Qless box for emergency Qcells cause you ve united un emergency Qless colony with yes though a mated no stop laying Q colony but the unite will take some time/days to happen and bottom box probably ll make emergency Qcells during that time and also may do and after unite take place cause them ll be on that fever and ll find open brood from Q+ colony above......it be said to train emergency colony into to hopelessly Queen less takes around 2 weeks(its a crushing nurses morale slow build) -1st week ends destroy all emergency Qcells give them 1open brood to make more emergency cells and then 2nd week ends after Q remove destroy them too, you do the unite

except if i ve missunderstand your manipulation and it was already a hopelessly Q colony

I shouldn't have complicated the story by mentioning the spare queen. Do you really have to have a hive hopelessly queenless before uniting?
Enough to say that this mornng, I removed a queen from a deep box with brood and bees, immediately put that box, with newspaper above it, under the stack of another hive which I wanted to boost, .
The bees united without hesitation and this evening it seems that the newspaper has been broken through. I'm pleased with that result.

 

[magor]

I shouldn't have complicated the story by mentioning the spare queen. Do you really have to have a hive hopelessly queenless before uniting?
Enough to say that this mornng, I removed a queen from a deep box with brood and bees, immediately put that box, with newspaper above it, under the stack of another hive which I wanted to boost, .
The bees united without hesitation and this evening it seems that the newspaper has been broken through. I'm pleased with that result.

if not quote all particulars then may conclusion false , you can unite anything but one thing is the unite other thing regality after , them kingdoms and if a colony has a chance their genes reign then will take that chance and either recapture either swarm so need to minimize the possibilities both