So is compulsory registration on the way

[drstitson]

the simple approach is simply to have an annual census/declaration.

In Italy this has to be done by a set date or within a set period, depending upon region, typically during winter (although some 31st march) So you just declare what colonies you are overwintering (or have overwintered) at each site.

http://www.mieliditalia.it/download/tab_distanze.pdf

declaration date is 2nd column. fines for non compliance in column 5 (ranging from £10 to £500 per hive).

 

[pargyle]

The problem will not be the EU legislation but the UK implementation of it.
After Whitehall has gold plated the directive, they will make us pay for the for gold plating.

Cynical but probably the reality of what would happen ...

EU will require us to count bees as well as colonies there will be quotas for honey production and excess honey will have to be consigned to the drains. Honey will have to be filtered to extinction and heat treated to remove any goodness at all... visible bar codes on all hives and components and full traceability of all the raw materials and stuff given to the bees.

Only got to look at Pig farming, chicken farming and fisheries to see what is likely to happen ...

.... and the UK will spend millions instituting a bee counting inspectorate whilst most of the rest of Europe won't bother .... whilst being subsidised by their Governments so that they can import cheap inferior honey to the UK.

Whilst I have no problem with compulsory registration per se if it IS led by the EU then it's a disaster looking for somewhere to happen. The only joy is that any EU iniiative will take a lifetime to get through the various legislative processes so I'm probably too old to have to worry about it ...

 

[pargyle]

the simple approach is simply to have an annual census/declaration.

In Italy this has to be done by a set date or within a set period, depending upon region, typically during winter (although some 31st march) So you just declare what colonies you are overwintering (or have overwintered) at each site.

http://www.mieliditalia.it/download/tab_distanze.pdf

declaration date is 2nd column. fines for non compliance in column 5 (ranging from £10 to £500 per hive).

Sensible practical and probably leads to some good (if basic) statistics ... mind you, knowing Italian bureaucracy, they are probably still consolidating the returns from 2009 !! Or even before ....

 

[Brian Bush]

'Cynical but probably the reality of what would happen ... '

Cynical?? Yes!!!
We need to have a system of recording where hives are. An annual census, a record on Beebase? Take your pick.
If you are on Beebase you get a warning e-mail requesting you take quarantine precautions if you hives are within 5 km of a foul brood outbreak

 

[user 6228]

the simple approach is simply to have an annual census/declaration.

In Italy this has to be done by a set date or within a set period, depending upon region, typically during winter (although some 31st march) So you just declare what colonies you are overwintering (or have overwintered) at each site.

http://www.mieliditalia.it/download/tab_distanze.pdf

declaration date is 2nd column. fines for non compliance in column 5 (ranging from £10 to £500 per hive).

but there is also restrictions on where you can your hives in that document, that could rule out many back garden hives
perhaps you could translate those for us

EDIT -- google xlate

1) - the distances are normally considered to be by the side of the hive and the bees fly out of the limitations are generally
deemed to be unnecessary in the presence of gradients, walls, fences, shelters appropriate not to allow the passage of bees and highest in the
minus two
meters

 

[pargyle]

'Cynical but probably the reality of what would happen ... '

Cynical?? Yes!!!
We need to have a system of recording where hives are. An annual census, a record on Beebase? Take your pick.
If you are on Beebase you get a warning e-mail requesting you take quarantine precautions if you hives are within 5 km of a foul brood outbreak

I'm on Beebase and I don't have an issue with either this or an annual hive census ...

As I said earlier in the thread ... the issue of those (less than responsible) beekeepers who don't look after their hives, don't register anywhere and actually defy the movement restrictions when imposed are the biggest problem. As always ... the vast majority will be the ones who comply and the minority, who cause the problems, are the ones who won't give a sh..t.

 

[Tom Bick]

What do the French do and what are the French supposed to do as I often think they have a good sensible way of dealing with situations like this.

 

[user 6228]

Natural england is pressing for it see this

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/12-13-080_Improving_Honey_Bee_Health_tcm6-36187.pdf

 

[madasafish]

Natural england is pressing for it see this

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/12-13-080_Improving_Honey_Bee_Health_tcm6-36187.pdf

Natural England also wants HB destroyed..
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-7735.html

 

[MuswellMetro]

Average payout...around £40. Not worth the paper it's printed on IMHO. No get-out for the 1-3 but the rest is optional. No idea what the B scheme costs are which would apply to me in season anyhow.

Is a vertical AS one hive or two btw?

In the Federation of middlesex BKA one of the member BKA's has opted out of BDI including the 1-3 payment,so they pay £2 less, it was said at the last Fed meeting some yorkshire associations do the same

 

[Edwardking]

If it happens, it happens. Will it solve the problem of poor bee keepers suddenly upping their game and taking more care? Of course not. It'll mean good bee keepers just keep on doing what they've always done. Perhaps what's really required is for all bee keepers to need a licence - you get one I suggest, by passing the Basic - that way we can guarantee a level of skill. In Germany you need a licence to play golf (platzreife) - and that raises the standard of public golf courses. Similar thinking with bees could be the right step forward.

 

[user 6228]

See this http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A853618.pdf
see paragraph 21 - You could be fined for not treating your bees
see paragrpah 30 - compulsorary registration

 

[pargyle]

See this http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A853618.pdf
see paragraph 21 - You could be fined for not treating your bees
see paragrpah 30 - compulsorary registration

The biggest concern from Natural England seems to be the introduction of imported Bombus pollinator bees for glasshouse crops and the lack of inspection these get for disease/parasites. They are used for a season and then destroyed although the hives appear to be re-used without cleansing ..

I had no idea that £1.2m was spent annually on these imported bees by the glasshouse crop industry !

I don't particularly welcome the prospect of NE getting involved as their priorities appear to be the protection of wild pollinators .. although as a beekeeper I share their concerns I have more worries that wild pollinators will pass pathogens to my bees rather than the reverse ....

I would welcome some legislation on the husbandry/inspection of imported pollinator bees.

Interesting document though ...

 

[itma]

The biggest concern from Natural England seems to be the introduction of imported Bombus pollinator bees for glasshouse crops and the lack of inspection these get for disease/parasites. They are used for a season and then destroyed although the hives appear to be re-used without cleansing ..
...
I would welcome some legislation on the husbandry/inspection of imported pollinator bees.
...

And I would welcome the BBKA kicking their "friends in high places" into some action in that area.

 

[user 6228]

Perhaps what's really required is for all bee keepers to need a licence - you get one I suggest, by passing the Basic - that way we can guarantee a level of skill. In Germany you need a licence to play golf (platzreife) - and that raises the standard of public golf courses. Similar thinking with bees could be the right step forward.

NO ... compulsorary licensing and training lowers the average skill to raise the minimum.
See amateur marine navigation of small craft.

 

[Edwardking]

So by that logic, people with a driving licence are worse drivers than those without? Licensing ensures skills levels and knowledge, and will help the removal of bad beekeepers. Simples.

 

[Nige.Coll]

i have no problem with compulsory registration .
now it has been in the press that diseases etc have been passed from honey bees to wild bees and bumblebees it is only a matter of time before it happens.

 

[Travelator]

See this http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A853618.pdf
see paragraph 21 - You could be fined for not treating your bees
see paragrpah 30 - compulsorary registration

This appears to be a response from "Scottish Natural Heritage" (whoever they are) to last year's FERA consultation on their bee strategy. If anyone on here takes exception to SNH's views, they ideally should have filled in the form and sent a response of their own (as an individual) and lobbied their local association and BBKA to do likewise (as an organisation), but unfortunately it's too late now.

 

[Travelator]

Natural england is pressing for it see this

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/12-13-080_Improving_Honey_Bee_Health_tcm6-36187.pdf

Another response (this time from Natural England) to last year's FERA consultation. Looking at these, I'm beginning to worry that other organisations (possibly hostile to beekeepers) may have done a better job of responding and pushing their own agendas than us lot did.

 

[Dishmop]

Iv i carnt red oar rit veri wel howe kan I unstand awl tha rools?