So is compulsory registration on the way

[Dishmop]

T

he problem will not be the EU legislation but the UK implementation of it.

oh how very true....

EU makes a rule, which is documented on 6 sheets of A4.
UK doesnt understand some if it and after rewriting, it grows to 500 sheets which nobody can understand.
Most of Europe cant be bothered.
The French would ignore it anyway but wait until the UK made a mistake and report them.

 

[user 6228]

So by that logic, people with a driving licence are worse drivers than those without? Licensing ensures skills levels and knowledge, and will help the removal of bad beekeepers. Simples.

You are using a logical fallacy. You can't invert a term such as "Average" to construct an implication for an individual.

Making people pass a test only ensures that they have passed the test.
bad bee keepers can still pass tests.
potentially good bee keepers who pass the tests can stop learning after they pass the test, and so become just mediocre but think they are good.

 

[alanf]

Natural england is pressing for it see this

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/12-13-080_Improving_Honey_Bee_Health_tcm6-36187.pdf

Natural England are regulators and administrators. Hardly surprising that they advocate more regulation and administration.

I suspect the costs of cranking up a simple voluntary scheme like Beebase to a full statutory backed one far outweigh any real benefits. I think the most likely outcome is that the prospect of compulsory registration will be left hanging as a possibility. It suits some to have a threat they can bring out from time to time. And the fact that the topic has been periodically kicked around and a decision made to postpone covers a lot of ar*es if some scandal does turn up.

 

[drstitson]

not much in the way of gardens in italian cities.

essentially all beekeeping will be being done in rural/semirural setting.

by people who rely on the income and more than likely have other reasons to have a holding number and visit local ASL offices (e.g. when dropping off denuncia on 31st december everyone else there was handing in pink flimsies for stamping wrt pig transport/slaughter).

 

[madasafish]

Natural England are regulators and administrators. Hardly surprising that they advocate more regulation and administration.

I suspect the costs of cranking up a simple voluntary scheme like Beebase to a full statutory backed one far outweigh any real benefits. I think the most likely outcome is that the prospect of compulsory registration will be left hanging as a possibility. It suits some to have a threat they can bring out from time to time. And the fact that the topic has been periodically kicked around and a decision made to postpone covers a lot of ar*es if some scandal does turn up.

Registration is a waste of time if it is not enforced or is unenforceable.

(See the use of mobile phone in cars and smoking in cars with children)

All you have to do with hives is paint them dull colours, place in a wood out of view and that's it.

And there are all sorts of shenanigans you can use to under-report .

Even the thickest and dumbest MP would recognise that.. So on that basis, I would expect registration to be introduced. And be a shambles.

 

[Edwardking]

Actually Derekm, you can. By your logic the driving test would have died out years ago. licensing is coming and it'll be here to stay.

 

[MartinL]

Actually Derekm, you can. By your logic the driving test would have died out years ago. licensing is coming and it'll be here to stay.

"Years ago" you just signed a form to agree to take a test if one was implemented. The license remained valid even though the holders never even met with an examiner.
How good would their driving be today???

 

[victor meldrew]

Plenty of drivers around in Northern Ireland who never took at test , there was no test requirement there in the fifties. Driving licenses were as easy to obtain as dog licenses !
VM


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[MartinL]

. . . . . . . . . . . this EU sponsored report http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0079018

The report, (although commissioned by our friends in Europe) was generated in the Good old USA!
Land of The Free, (various exceptions;, political bodies, "Foreign" Nationals, etc). Home of the word "mandatory", where you can be arrested for crossing the road or being drunk on Sunday!

I must get an American - English translation of the word "Free",
might come back with Shoddy, Inferior or censored/supressed?

Let the Yanks get on with meddling in other places outside Europe . Bet Mr University of Maryland can't find it on a map or list more than three EU Member Countries?
With any luck we won't be in the EU by then anyway.
And we could all be free of the whiskey swillers from the land of the deep fried mars-bar too, Yippeee!

 

[MartinL]

Plenty of drivers around in Northern Ireland who never took at test , there was no test requirement there in the fifties. Driving licenses were as easy to obtain as dog licenses !
VM


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Dog Licenses??? what about starting a rumour??

Is there a Kennel club Forum??

 

[oliver90owner]

Would you not have to own something to register it as yours? Seems to me that plod would have to investigate bee losses, not just stolen hives. That would make everyone responsible for their bees if they escaped from their proper location I suppose?

More to it, once you start thinking about it.

 

[user 6228]

Actually Derekm, you can. By your logic the driving test would have died out years ago. licensing is coming and it'll be here to stay.

Actually edward, you cant, as you are breaking some fundamental bits of maths. Apart from assuming that the only way to competence is through compulsoray training and testing.

Legislation does not make things true.

Compulsory training will change the distribution, it may reduce the frequency in the very low end. However, it will severely reduce the frequency above the tested standard.

You need to prove the effect is going to do anything to frequency of poor treatment of bees. Go see the stuff the RYA has done on this.


This route is going to lead to enforced standard bee keeping as agricultural practice and who is going to set the standard, Yes its the "The Match stick men"


You would be better starting off with a definition of cruelty to bees rather than licensed practice

 

[VEG]

That's 1/4 post...how did you get to 7000, hmm...Might make the Welsh Convention this year, you shackled to the door again?

Nope he will still be in sunnier climes

 

[Edwardking]

Yes you can Derekm. There's plenty to read on the subject. Licensing will create a minimum standard, testable and enforceable. That's all the necessary criteria.

 

[susbees]

Nope he will still be in sunnier climes

Ah. First time we've got the chance to go and the class clown will be missing. Sigh...

 

[victor meldrew]

Compulsory training will change the distribution, it may reduce the frequency in the very low end. However, it will severely reduce the frequency above the tested

??? Explain then the popularity of the advanced driving test!

VM


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[user 6228]

??? Explain then the popularity of the advanced driving test!

VM


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the non-compulsorary Advanced driving test?

its the compulsion bit that is issue not the test itself

compulsion is a poor motivator for excellence
the popularity of the Advanced proves my point.

 

[victor meldrew]

That's it, dodge the question as per
VM


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[VEG]

Ah. First time we've got the chance to go and the class clown will be missing. Sigh...

I will be there lol

 

[user 6228]

That's it, dodge the question as per
VM


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no it isnt dodge the question...

go look at how the RYA has avoided the compulsory testing of yachties

They have a fine uptake of their courses and tests and as a country we have a fine reputation for relatively low incident rates and very high standards and numbers of attainment.

If you go for compulsary you lose something... is the gain worth it?
its quite difficult to kill yourself or someone else beekeeping

Derek

And in case you think I'm exam shy

RYA Yachtmaster offshore (thats 2 theory exams and 3 practicals, and loads of logged experience) all done without compulsion.