Should I stick to the OA plan

[Pete D]

Following the cooler weather earlier in the month when from 5th - 19th Dec the overnight temps ranged from -4 to +3 I was planning to OA this Friday 30th in the belief that HM would of stopped laying during the cold spell and I would now be brood less. However we have had some mild days over the last week or so and maybe she has started to lay again.........
I have looked at the long range forecast and its showing a cold snap from 6th Jan onwards for about a week.........if it can be believed.
Mite drop is not at critical levels but present in all hives.
My ineperienced gut feel is that I should stick to my plan and OA this Fri / Sat.

Anyone offer any reasoned arguements against this action.

Thanks
Pete D

 

[MandF]

Exactly the same plan/reasoning as me. I figured the cold spell would have stopped her laying, and its not been warm enough and/or a flow to get her laying again.
Even if she did start laying, most of the cells would be uncapped so still no hiding place for the varroa.
Thats why Im sticking to the plan - I just hope friday is cold enough (as forecast) to mean they are mostly clustering when I open the hive up.

 

[Pete D]

6 Degrees forcast here with few showers........

 

[Winker]

Following the cooler weather earlier in the month when from 5th - 19th Dec the overnight temps ranged from -4 to +3 I was planning to OA this Friday 30th in the belief that HM would of stopped laying during the cold spell and I would now be brood less. However we have had some mild days over the last week or so and maybe she has started to lay again.........
I have looked at the long range forecast and its showing a cold snap from 6th Jan onwards for about a week.........if it can be believed.
Mite drop is not at critical levels but present in all hives.
My ineperienced gut feel is that I should stick to my plan and OA this Fri / Sat.

Anyone offer any reasoned arguements against this action.

Thanks
Pete D

Just do it, you need to do Mite control. It may be a case of only getting 80% of the mites, but 80% is better than not doing it at all

 

[For want of a better word]

Anyone offer any reasoned arguments against this action

You could try the old artificial cold snap trick.... direct a nozzle from a CO2 fire extinguisher into the hive every morning for a week.

Then vaporise!

 

[Arfermo]

Just do it, you need to do Mite control. It may be a case of only getting 80% of the mites, but 80% is better than not doing it at all

Vaporising only gets a first time hit of 80% if we believe the pundits. So treat twice at 2 week inteval - as the instructions for my Varrox thingy advises - and that gets 96% in all. No doubt same can apply to trickling. Better safe than sorry - and you will not miss the few brood larvae etc that get done for either. Go on - be brave!!!

 

[jezd]

Just do it, you need to do Mite control. It may be a case of only getting 80% of the mites, but 80% is better than not doing it at all

If you have brood its more likely to be hitting just 15% from memory.

JD

 

[For want of a better word]

If there were 1000 mites in the colony
80% would kill 800 of them leaving 200
If the mite did not reproduce within the 2 week period at the next treatment another 80 % would be exterminated leaving 40.
I presume as vaporisation does no harm to the bees you could carry on vaporising until significantly there were no mites statistically speaking left! (< 0.5)

And if you poured that much Oxallictrickle over the bees their poor kidneys would explode!

SWMBO has just said I need to apply common sense! instead of Oxallic!!

 

[gavin]

Don't repeat any trickle treatment (you'll kill bees)

Don't hesitate (the lengthening days will cause brood raising very soon)

Don't fret (it is usually highly effective)

Don't listen to the vaporisers (fiddly, risk of fumes, need a new toy)

Just find a cool day soon and do it. Tomorrow for me (we reserve our Hogmanays for other matters up here).

 

[mbc]

If you have brood its more likely to be hitting just 15% from memory.

JD

This 15% refers to the likely proportion of phoretic mites under normal brood conditions i.e. during the season ( March - August ish ) . As soon as there is less brood, a lower percentage of varroa will be in the brood.
I cant recall where I read it ( possibly the auther was Pete Kemble of foundation fame ), but there's good evidence for this phenomena in the counter-intuitive fact that when a shook swarm is carried out, the remaining varroa do not all dive into the first available brood, making the commonly recommended practice of removing the first frame of sealed brood likely to cause more harm than good.

 

[RoofTops]

...but there's good evidence for this phenomena in the counter-intuitive fact that when a shook swarm is carried out, the remaining varroa do not all dive into the first available brood, making the commonly recommended practice of removing the first frame of sealed brood likely to cause more harm than good.

I've never heard this being recommended. What I have heard and have practiced it to put a frame of open brood in with the shook swarm and remove it after about a week. This is using a frame that might otherwise be destroyed. Removing the first frame of sealed brood the shook swarm create for themselves would be, I agree, not good for the colony, which is why it is not recommended. Except I suppose by those who mis-heard the original advice.

 

[chrismcd]

Just find a cool day soon and do it.

I am with Gavin on this.

Hopefully the Queen stopped laying in that cold spell a while ago, so I did mine on the 23rd.

This has been a weird winter so far and as the days start to lengthen again I would go about a week after any cold spell but certainly not later than the middle of Jan.

Trickling Oxalic should be only one leg of your IPM programme so don't panic if it is not spot on.

I think this is one of those time when; "The perfect is the enemy of the good."

 

[drstitson]

Here is my thinking on the subject:

i think it'll be really tight slot (ooer missus!) this year. No idea re physiology of queen re restarting laying but would imagine that needs to stuff herself a bit first, so....

First proper frost = 10th Dec
Mid winter = 21st Dec
Mild weather 21st onwards
Last possible brood emerging (assuming nothing chilled and aborted) = 30th dec
First possible new brood ready to seal (at 9 days after laying) = 30th-1st

So sometime 30th-1st looks optimal (might miss the odd sealed cell but looks like it'll be mild into early next week so any later and there'll almost certainly be a little more brood). IMHO.

Presume OA trickled does it's job over a couple of days so perhaps 30th for the hit?

 

[Hivemaker.]

First proper frost = 10th Dec

None here yet,but what difference does a few days of frost make.

 

[AndyJThompson]

We could still get a good prolonged frost in January early February as we regularly do in south Lincolnshire, and would be a shame to miss it by presuming spring is round the corner and putting treatment on in haste. I will be waiting and treating early Feb if we still have had no cold spell.

 

[Winker]

We could still get a good prolonged frost in January early February as we regularly do in south Lincolnshire, and would be a shame to miss it by presuming spring is round the corner and putting treatment on in haste. I will be waiting and treating early Feb if we still have had no cold spell.

Your queen will be starting to lay again by that time regardless of the weather. She may not be laying much but she will have started in preparation of the spring being around the corner.

 

[dpearce4]

forcast on bbc for here, thurs 9c, fri 11c, sat/sun 12c. argh. lol back to work tues.

 

[MandF]

Friday morning is forecast to be 8/9deg here, so that will have to do for me

 

[Winker]

Friday morning is forecast to be 8/9deg here, so that will have to do for me

I have decided i will do it on the 1st of January, every year, regardless of the weather. I am going to make it my yearly Hogmanay ceilidh with the bees. I will put on Andy Stewart playing Campbeltown Loch on the Iphone, dae a wee Jig around each hive as i apply the OA close up the hives and leave them to party in peace, with the wee tipple of OA i just gave them.

 

[gavin]

Just to back up Winker's comments on spring around the corner ....

This business about waiting until the cold weather arrives worries me. Do we really know that brood raising continues into mid-winter when the weather is milder? Have a look at this plot of data from Virginia. Exactly the same story came from a bee researcher in Arizona. If anyone knows of any UK research it would be good to see it. The main point is an early cessation of brood raising and a continuous increase from late December. That increase will not be driven by increasing temperature at that time of year, so presumably daylength is the important factor. Those of you who have been watching bees bringing in pollen until recently may have just seen bees storing pollen. Yes, mild autumns mean later brood raising but unless people have looked do we really know that the brood raising continued into December? Even Hogmanay may be later than the optimum time for oxalic treatment in most years.

The bottom line is - if you have not already applied the oxalic, get it on now. Best not worry about fiddling about waiting a fortnight after a cold snap, just do it. It seems most likely that sealed brood is at a minimum right now - in colder autumns maybe a little earlier than this.

G.

PS Oh dear, can't use that server to host images for this forum. Give me 5 mins ... fixed with a TinyURL address ....