Scotland

[psafloyd]

Actually, I think everyone is missing the real question - Should the UK declare independence from London? If Scotland does become independent, I can see England wanting to join it - but without Westminster...In which case the future of Scotland might be rather more certain.

Given that London is the economic engine of the nation, generates vast sums of wealth and tax revenue, is the only international city in England, has all the transport hubs, most of the jobs not to mention tourism, that sounds like a really well conceived plan.

What's the name of your party so I can look out for it in the ballots?

 

[psafloyd]

This sense of entitlement attitude is noticeable in many populations world wide where a peoples own powers of self determination have been taken away from them and they are governed by people with very different priorities living in different realities a long way away from them.

MBC, how have 'these peoples' had the powers of self-determination taken away? In Scotland and Wales, they have a greater say on how their nation is run.

 

[Black Comb]

What if the vast majority of people in Europe want the UK to adopt the Euro ? It would only be a tiny percentage of the population of Europe putting a spanner in the works for the rest, non ?
(not saying I think the EU should dictate what currency we use, just pointing out the weak argument above)

We are not in a full political union with Europe (yet)
Not a weak argument at all.

 

[domino]

Given that London is the economic engine of the nation, generates vast sums of wealth and tax revenue, is the only international city in England, has all the transport hubs, most of the jobs not to mention tourism, that sounds like a really well conceived plan.

What's the name of your party so I can look out for it in the ballots?

I live in London, I'd vote for it

 

[user 6228]

Given that London is the economic engine of the nation, generates vast sums of wealth and tax revenue, is the only international city in England, has all the transport hubs, most of the jobs not to mention tourism, that sounds like a really well conceived plan.

What's the name of your party so I can look out for it in the ballots?

southerner... obviously not done much time in Brum or Manchester

 

[madasafish]

southerner... obviously not done much time in Brum or Manchester

sensible then

 

[mbc]

MBC, how have 'these peoples' had the powers of self-determination taken away?.

Imperialist aggression.

 

[user 6228]

Imperialist aggression.

not talking about Scotland then.
We the English rebelled against a absolutist Scottish king for the third time and then installed a Dutchman. Then a financial bailout of the Scots and the Union enacted by the scottish parliament. After the bailout when we had a German king, some the Scots didnt like the deal an tried to take us over again. So we just paid one lot of Scots to opress the others.

No imperial aggression there....More like a war of English liberation from Scots tyranny, a magnamious bailout, then Scots breaking their promise...

 

[mbc]

not talking about Scotland then.
We the English rebelled against a absolutist Scottish king for the third time and then installed a Dutchman. Then a financial bailout of the Scots and the Union enacted by the scottish parliament. After the bailout when we had a German king, some the Scots didnt like the deal an tried to take us over again. So we just paid one lot of Scots to opress the others.

No imperial aggression there....More like a war of English liberation from Scots tyranny, a magnamious bailout, then Scots breaking their promise...

From wiki;
"In 1850 Robert Knox published “The Races of Men” which asserted the inferiority of the Celt compared to the Anglo Saxon and Nordic races.
The view that the economic failures of the Highlands were due to the shortcomings of the Celtic race was shared and expressed by the two most important Scottish newspapers, The Scotsman and the Glasgow Herald – and even the more northerly Inverness Courier.
In 1851 The Scotsman wrote that
“Collective emigration is, therefore, the removal of a diseased and damaged part of our population. It is a relief to the rest of the population to be rid of this part.”
Similar views were held by senior public officials. Sir Charles Trevelyan was cofounder with Sir John McNeill of the Highland and Island Emigration Society. In a letter to McNeill in 1852 he wrote that
“A national effort” would now be necessary in order to rid the land of “the surviving Irish and Scotch Celts”. The exodus would then allow for the settlement of a racially superior people of Teutonic stock. He welcomed “the prospects of flights of Germans settling here in increasing numbers – an orderly, moral, industrious and frugal people, less foreign to us than the Irish or Scotch Celt, a congenial element which will readily assimilate with our body politic.”

Anglo-Saxon imperialist aggression in any mans language, or maybe ethnic cleansing.

 

[pargyle]

The Office for National Statistics has just published its annual compendium of comparisons between the four nations that make up the UK. Population and Migration, Social Indicators and Employment - very easy to read graphics.

Interesting .... in a scary sort of way !

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/compendiums/compendium-of-uk-statistics/index.html

 

[roche]

Given that London is the economic engine of the nation, generates vast sums of wealth and tax revenue, is the only international city in England, has all the transport hubs, most of the jobs not to mention tourism, that sounds like a really well conceived plan.

What's the name of your party so I can look out for it in the ballots?

One could argue that London has got to its state of pre-eminence by being a leach on the country, getting a strangle hold on the transport links and hubs and virtually suppressing the rest of the country. Policy made in the fevered Westminster hothouse, journalists fixated by said hothouse stoking the fire...
It all leads to a pretty dysfunctional country really.

 

[madasafish]

One could argue that London has got to its state of pre-eminence by being a leach on the country, getting a strangle hold on the transport links and hubs and virtually suppressing the rest of the country. Policy made in the fevered Westminster hothouse, journalists fixated by said hothouse stoking the fire...
It all leads to a pretty dysfunctional country really.

In the 1960s the then Labour Government tried to ensure that increased production capacity and new industries did not locate in the Midlands or the South..

Like most dictats by politicians it ended up with such successes as Linwood in Scotland and the Scottish Steel Industry.

And I would remind you that the proposed High Speed Rail network which would reduce travel time from London is being opposed by the same Party which tried spreading industry to the regions in the 1960s.

Political parties and their politicians are constant in two things only: their personal greed (see expenses and Tony Blair) and their ineptitude .

 

[MartinL]

The act of Union 1707 was a financial bail out of the Scottish banks
in return for them not being able to side with the French.

If they want independence they can have it.

But it must be the full monty:

No half measures. No pound, no army, no navy no airforce, no money, no preference for defence contracts, no aid,
passports and customs at the border. And all Scottish nationals will require a work permit as they will not be part of the European Union, unless they have been resident in England wales and Northern Ireland for a minimum of say 4 years and are in employment,retired or in full time education.

They can no have their piece and eat it.

Maybe we could sell them back the Royal bank of Scotland too?

Where could we draw the border?

Hadrian's wall would Perhaps, get rid of a few more scroungers with funny accents, (way aye)?!

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Maybe we could sell them back the Royal bank of Scotland too?

Where could we draw the border?

Hadrian's wall would Perhaps, get rid of a few more scroungers with funny accents, (way aye)?!

There would be a good reason why Hadrian selected that placement!

 

[steph333]

Well my pension is with standard life so in the absence of any certainty on currency, tax position, etc. I will be pulling it out and putting it into an English registered company before the vote. (SL have this morning issued a statement about these potential problems).
I just can't take the risk. I do not trust politicians in general and Salmond in particular as he has stated he will default on the debt. Not a man of integrity then.

Personally apart from the Jacobite rebellion (where both sides did plenty of killing) I cannot see what harm being part of the UK has ever done to the Scots.
In return we lately have had Blair (scottish) and Brown (very Scottish) who wrecked our economy and spent, spent and spent again for which we are all paying. Never mind the fudge they created which allows Scottish MP's to vote on English matters but not vice versa.

Strange how about 2 million voters can cause such a potential mess for the remaining 61 million (UK pop. 63 million, Scotland 5 million, roughly 2 million Scots in favour at the moment).

Hi

Hopefully the 2 million in favor so far are the die hard contingent . I for one am Scottish born and bred and never vote for anyone. On this occasion i will be out and voting against. I can only hope the other 3 million Scots are similar and vote for the Union.

Stephen

 

[thebeeman]

If they voted yes I would sell up and move south

 

[Briarfield]

If they voted yes I would sell up and move south

Too late. Value will drop like a stone on 19/9. Who would want to buy?

Salmond will be pleased I guess as it will help achieve his 79 Group's aims of wealth sharing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[madasafish]

As I understand it the SNP want to raise benefits AND establish a Wealth Fund - both using North Sea Oil.

Good luck with that : the natural urge of socialist politicians to spend will mean the former will soon consume the latter.

 

[MartinL]

If they voted yes I would sell up and move south

You'd need a visa!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Luckily enough I also enjoy Penderyn Whisky. So if it's a yes I'll just raise a glass of Penderyn's finest to the porridge eating Savages, and with the Barnett formula out of the way look at last at Wales getting it's proper share of money backfrom the Government.