Saving a dwindling hive

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PhilN

New Bee
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
50
Reaction score
21
Location
Hampshire
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
3
Hi, I continue to soldier on with a real mish mash of hives which, once things have settled down, I hope to rationalise. The issue I currently have is a hive that I think has a ‘late’ mated Virgin queen. I’ve now got a really nice brood pattern... but there are very few nurse and foraging bees left to support the new brood- down to only two or three seams of bees in a 14x12. Should I bump them all in to a small nuc or can I steal bees from a worker drone laying hive I’ve got (which is due to be shaken out anyway)? I’ve got a couple of colonies that I could potentially steal worker bees from to support this hive but don’t know if and how it could be done.
Thanks (one day I hope to be able to give rather than ask for advice!)
P
 
14 X 12 is too large for 3 seams of bees, place them in a nuc. Its as bad as the qe2 living in Buck palace when ideally a bungalow is more then ample for her.
 
Shake out the laying workers (I assume by worker drone laying you mean laying workers) on a board sloping up to the entrance of the colony in need, once it's been put into a poly nuc. The LWs will soon pick up the Q+ hive scent and go in and boost the weak colony; any that don't convert won't be allowed in.

If bees from two colonies are mixed directly they'll fight, but they won't from three colonies. Use bees from supers and shake them onto the entrance board.

Best feed the nuc in the absence of a flow or a strong foraging force.
 
How much existing brood is there, and of what age?
Not sure! There are approximately 4 sides (2 frames) of capped worker brood on 14x12 national frames. There are just about enough bees to cover the same. I think that I’ve got a very recently mated queen (last year’s seems to have disappeared) and the bees left to rear seems to be dwindling fast... would be a shame to lose the hive as it’s a tidy looking queen!
Shake out the laying workers (I assume by worker drone laying you mean laying workers) on a board sloping up to the entrance of the colony in need, once it's been put into a poly nuc. The LWs will soon pick up the Q+ hive scent and go in and boost the weak colony; any that don't convert won't be allowed in.

If bees from two colonies are mixed directly they'll fight, but they won't from three colonies. Use bees from supers and shake them onto the entrance board.

Best feed the nuc in the absence of a flow or a strong foraging force.
thanks that’s very helpful- I’ll get on to it this morning..
 
Shake out the laying workers (I assume by worker drone laying you mean laying workers) on a board sloping up to the entrance of the colony in need, once it's been put into a poly nuc. The LWs will soon pick up the Q+ hive scent and go in and boost the weak colony; any that don't convert won't be allowed in.

If bees from two colonies are mixed directly they'll fight, but they won't from three colonies. Use bees from supers and shake them onto the entrance board.

Best feed the nuc in the absence of a flow or a strong foraging force.
Good advice. I have a Nuc that has just mated (sealed cell from a main hive made into a 5 frame Nuc). My mistake was leaving it in the apiary I made it up in & although I kept it closed for first 36 hours lost quite a few bees. Now has 3 frames with brood on it and about 3 frames of workers but not densely covering the brood. Was wondering best way to boost it & whether to unite some frames of bees over newspaper but your suggestion is far quicker. Question: should these bees from 3 or more colonies come from a separate apiary or will it still work if from the same apiary? Know in theory, super bees have not yet progressed to be foragers but good to have insight from practical experience!
 
Good advice. I have a Nuc that has just mated (sealed cell from a main hive made into a 5 frame Nuc). My mistake was leaving it in the apiary I made it up in & although I kept it closed for first 36 hours lost quite a few bees. Now has 3 frames with brood on it and about 3 frames of workers but not densely covering the brood. Was wondering best way to boost it & whether to unite some frames of bees over newspaper but your suggestion is far quicker. Question: should these bees from 3 or more colonies come from a separate apiary or will it still work if from the same apiary? Know in theory, super bees have not yet progressed to be foragers but good to have insight from practical experience!
It works from the same apiary ... I made up a nuc from three different colonies last year ,,, no problem with the bees mixing and I even introduced (risky but it worked) a bought in queen - in a cage for just a few hours and they seemed to be accepting her so I let her out ... all fine. I'm going to be doing the same sometime next week when a new queen arrives.
 
It works from the same apiary ... I made up a nuc from three different colonies last year ,,, no problem with the bees mixing and I even introduced (risky but it worked) a bought in queen - in a cage for just a few hours and they seemed to be accepting her so I let her out ... all fine. I'm going to be doing the same sometime next week when a new queen arrives.
Just wondering if a good proportion might fly back to their original colonies if nearby, when shaken out in front of the nuc?
 
Just wondering if a good proportion might fly back to their original colonies if nearby, when shaken out in front of the nuc?
Ahhh ... you are thinking of shaking them out ? If the original colony is there they will go home. I introduced frames of bees from three different colonies ... different thing sorry.
 
Just wondering if a good proportion might fly back to their original colonies if nearby, when shaken out in front of the nuc?
Supers bees are more likely to be house bees, so won't have located on the original site. You could always add more after a few days.
 
14 X 12 is too large for 3 seams of bees, place them in a nuc. Its as bad as the qe2 living in Buck palace when ideally a bungalow is more then ample for her.
Can you expain why is too much space is not good? I can see it would be harder for them to keep warm, but are there other considerations?
 
Supers bees are more likely to be house bees, so won't have located on the original site. You could always add more after a few days.
What do you think to the idea of shaking bees from super frames from 3 hives, into a washing up bowl with lid, spraying with sugar water (bit like making up an Apidea) and then tipping them directly into the Nuc to boost the number of nurse bees? Would that work in your experience and would the newly mated queen be safe?
 
Hi, I continue to soldier on with a real mish mash of hives which, once things have settled down, I hope to rationalise. The issue I currently have is a hive that I think has a ‘late’ mated Virgin queen. I’ve now got a really nice brood pattern... but there are very few nurse and foraging bees left to support the new brood- down to only two or three seams of bees in a 14x12. Should I bump them all in to a small nuc or can I steal bees from a worker drone laying hive I’ve got (which is due to be shaken out anyway)? I’ve got a couple of colonies that I could potentially steal worker bees from to support this hive but don’t know if and how it could be done.
Thanks (one day I hope to be able to give rather than ask for advice!)
P

The stolen worker bees will return to their original hive, and in a bad case they first kill the nuc queen.

You may give from a big hive one frame of emerging brood. Shake first all free bees off.
Then give from a bigger hive one food frame, which has lots of pollen.
 
spraying with sugar water (bit like making up an Apidea) and then tipping them directly into the Nuc to boost the number of nurse bees?
Sugar spraying is a good start robbing in the nuc.
And you first give foreign bees from another hive. They return to their home and tell that there is an excellent robbing object in the next door.
 
Yes, that works but best done during a flow, otherwise fighting will result. As a flow will be on, no need to feed.
Sugar spraying is a good start robbing in the nuc.
And you first give foreign bees from another hive. They return to their home and tell that there is an excellent robbing object in the next door.
Thanks!
 
What do you think to the idea of shaking bees from super frames from 3 hives, into a washing up bowl with lid, spraying with sugar water (bit like making up an Apidea) and then tipping them directly into the Nuc to boost the number of nurse bees? Would that work in your experience and would the newly mated queen be safe?
I don't know, Elaine; try it.
 

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