Saving a dwindling hive

[ericbeaumont]

I know. Don't try.

If she doesn't try, she won't know.

 

[elainemary]

Thankyou @Finman and @ericbeaumont for advice on this. Like always in beekeeping there are different solutions to the same problem with possible different outcomes depending on the situation and the decision depends on your attitude to risk. In my particular situation with a newly mated queen that I really like that needs a few more nurse bees, I will find a frame of emerging brood from another hive and add to it without other bees. I’ll also double check it has enough pollen and top up it’s feed.
I will also use Eric’s idea of mixing super bees from 3 hives on another occasion when a colony is stronger and needs boosting - but without spraying with sugar!!
Thanks again for both your advice, much appreciated
Elaine

 

[Finman]

Thankyou @Finman and @ericbeaumont for advice on this. Like always in beekeeping there are different solutions to the same problem with possible different outcomes depending on the situation and the decision depends on your attitude to risk. In my particular situation with a newly mated queen that I really like that needs a few more nurse bees, I will find a frame of emerging brood from another hive and add to it without other bees. I’ll also double check it has enough pollen and top up it’s feed.
I will also use Eric’s idea of mixing super bees from 3 hives on another occasion when a colony is stronger and needs boosting - but without spraying with sugar!!
Thanks again for both your advice, much appreciated
Elaine

To boost the hive forward it needs couple on emerging frames, but not at once. Only very young bees stays in the hive, and you get them enough from emerging frames.
When one box is full of bees and brood, that is a real beginning of the hive. It takes time, because brood cycle is 3 weeks. It takes 3 weeks that emerged bees start to forage.

When you get advices from other beekeerpers, it does not mean that you must try everything.

 

[ericbeaumont]

it does not mean that you must try everything.

I like to make mistakes.

 

[Finman]

I like to make mistakes.

Me too. A Finnish do not believe bef ore he tries two times himself.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Supers bees are more likely to be house bees, so won't have located on the original site.

You believe house bees don't leave the hive until they become foragers?
I know that the female of the human species can hold on for ages before needing a toilet, but bees?

 

[hemo]

Can you expain why is too much space is not good? I can see it would be harder for them to keep warm, but are there other considerations?

A very small colony in a very big box is a weak colony, they will or could be seen as an easy target by robbers or wasps and be over whelmed . One could reduce the entrance to one 9mm space.
As has been mentioned depending on the comb status in the hive, wax moth will or may not be controlled, this time of year with the warm weather heat isn't critical though they will still use up resources to try and keep 70% of an unused hive constant. The unused part of the hive will be at a cooler temp then the brooded area.

 

[ericbeaumont]

You believe house bees don't leave the hive until they become foragers?

I forgot that bit!

Nevertheless, when they're shaken onto a board they go into the new home well enough, and I reckon that if there's brood in there, they're likely to stay.

 

[oliver90owner]

If she doesn't try, she won't know.

She knows already. Finman is a proper beekeeper. He knows.

Someone who has (apparently) kept bees for ten years, at least, should know, too.

 

[ericbeaumont]

He knows

She knows already.

There's knowing and then there's knowing (and no, I'm not going to try drinking petrol).

 

[Finman]

As Jenkins said, the homebees feed larvae, they eate lots of pollen, and they must empty pollen shells from their gut, that they can eate again pollen and water.

They surely walk into the hive, but they return to their old home.

If you move 2 miles the nuc, all shaken bees will stay in the new place.

 

[elainemary]

I like to make mistakes.

It’s a v good way to learn. I make mistakes all the time!

 

[elainemary]

To boost the hive forward it needs couple on emerging frames, but not at once. Only very young bees stays in the hive, and you get them enough from emerging frames.
When one box is full of bees and brood, that is a real beginning of the hive. It takes time, because brood cycle is 3 weeks. It takes 3 weeks that emerged bees start to forage.

When you get advices from other beekeerpers, it does not mean that you must try everything.

I found a very good frame of emerging brood, in a nearby hive (Demaree top), about 1/2 of one side of the frame had already emerged and the frame was covered with downy bees. I left the bees in their own hive though & added the rest of the frame. I’m sure the rest of the brood will emerge in the next couple of days. Pollen was ok but for good measure I added a heavy pollen frame and took a frame out of the Nuc with not much stores on it. Then gave them a top up of syrup this evening whilst all other colonies had gone home
Think it will boost the small Nuc well

 

[PhilN]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
I tried what was suggested in response to my original post (reduced hive down to a nuc, shook out bees from drone laying worker hive and some bees from supers from other hives onto a board sloping up to hive with the hope of dissuading fighting ) Six dead bees that I can see on the board (I accept that there might be more though or they might have been expired bees anyway) Lots more bees now bringing in pollen - hive entrance is a lot more active - I'll leave alone for a week or so and then inspect again. Early indications suggest the advice I was given has worked.
The DLW hive is doomed anyway (so might aswell try to repurpose some of the bees) the newly laying virgin queen hive now looks like it might have enough bees to tend to the brood that is developing - certainly more than there were before so its chances must have improved - even if a little. Time will tell.
Thanks

 

[PhilN]

Shake out the laying workers (I assume by worker drone laying you mean laying workers) on a board sloping up to the entrance of the colony in need, once it's been put into a poly nuc. The LWs will soon pick up the Q+ hive scent and go in and boost the weak colony; any that don't convert won't be allowed in.

If bees from two colonies are mixed directly they'll fight, but they won't from three colonies. Use bees from supers and shake them onto the entrance board.

Best feed the nuc in the absence of a flow or a strong foraging force.

Seems to have worked - thanks