Ross Rounds?

[JohnRB]

Tried these, they are cr-p.
hanging sections are better.

I think they are ok - won first prize in our fun honey show section class (yesterday!) with one. They are quite fragile though when assembling and inserting into a super frame

 

[JohnRB]

I think thin balsa, soaked, formed into a circle and painted with wax could be something to try

 

[JohnRB]

I think thin balsa, soaked, formed into a circle and painted with wax could be something to try

But a faff to do!

 

[ericbeaumont]

No stock though. Are they still in business do you know?

I don't know.

Bought some about 5 years ago and made the mistake of putting them in Manleys, so the spacing between combs was too wide and combs ended up too fat.

Saw that they now produce sections to fit Manleys (in stock).

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

I suppose saying cr-p isn't specific enough. I found them extremely fiddly to fit into new frames, and an absolute nightmare into used frames. The problem of bees not filling the corners led to some very light sections, exacerbated by them being such a narrow section, I mostly used them for chunk.
Plastic with these is an issue, as is with the Ross, but I especially dislike the plastic sleeve. A good idea that maybe needs a bit more work.

 

[JohnRB]

I suppose saying cr-p isn't specific enough. I found them extremely fiddly to fit into new frames, and an absolute nightmare into used frames. The problem of bees not filling the corners led to some very light sections, exacerbated by them being such a narrow section, I mostly used them for chunk.
Plastic with these is an issue, as is with the Ross, but I especially dislike the plastic sleeve. A good idea that maybe needs a bit more work.

The problem is the market is so niche it’s just not worth a company’s time and money developing something new

 

[ericbeaumont]

formed into a circle

The notches to locate the rings in the cassette would be fiddly to replicate.

 

[ericbeaumont]

people don't like the amount of single use plastic involved

Perhaps a workable combination would be to make the lids from wood & cellophane and re-use the plastic rings.

 

[Jimmy]

Avoiding single use plastics is a great idea but I'd like to see how a glass jar compares in terms of resource use. Is there a trustworthy comparison (life cycle assessment) between a honey glass jar and a comb honey plastic container?
Some trading standards/EHOs look at whether you use new jars and lids are definitely single use. The resource use for making and recycling glass jars is far from negligible.

Additionally, if you're looking at doing comb honey with a view to making a profit, check the interest and price that your local market will accept. £12 is a great price particularly direct to the consumer. Cut comb offers more flexibility as you can always spin it out if the supply exceeds demand.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Cut comb offers more flexibility

I agree, and now use only unwired cut-comb foundation in supers. Combs extract easily even in the first year - slow spin for 80% - and foundation is cheaper.

 

[Poly Hive]

I'll just drop this little bomb the book that you're discussing is the first book that I bought regarding American beekeeping and I can remember most of being very early 1990s reading this book in the bath and thinking what what size of colonies because he was talking ,if I remember about Italian bees, and he was talking about three or four boxes full of Brood I mean these colonies were ginormous and then he was cramming them down for the comb honey well if you can get a colonies like size in this country the book do you well otherwise possibly not.

PH

 

[JohnRB]

Avoiding single use plastics is a great idea but I'd like to see how a glass jar compares in terms of resource use. Is there a trustworthy comparison (life cycle assessment) between a honey glass jar and a comb honey plastic container?
Some trading standards/EHOs look at whether you use new jars and lids are definitely single use. The resource use for making and recycling glass jars is far from negligible.

Additionally, if you're looking at doing comb honey with a view to making a profit, check the interest and price that your local market will accept. £12 is a great price particularly direct to the consumer. Cut comb offers more flexibility as you can always spin it out if the supply exceeds demand.

I agree entirely ref glass jars - consumers are kidding themselves about what is environmentally friendly, but 'my truth' seems to trump facts nowadays. Likewise, people have told me several times I shouldn't use plastic hives, yet the Abelo hives I bought 7 years ago still look almost new and I reckon will last me at least 20 years. As such, the environmental detriment over using imported red cedar is probably minimal.

Anyway, getting miles ahead of myself, I have found you can buy pretty decent compostable clear/opaque 'plastic' bags so if I ever manage to produce any rounds I would think about having one on display with a clear plastic lid and giving a customer the option of buying one with plastic lids or simply placed in a compostable bag.

My wife is buying me the maisemore ross round box for xmas, so I will have a play next season

 

[ericbeaumont]

three or four boxes full of Brood

Can get them onto 3 by May, although top may have some honey and the bottom pollen.

At that time the spring flow supers can be taken off, broods reduced (to two, most likely), RRs on and wait for the main flow.

Best results had with big swarms on a flow.

 

[Garry R]

I agree entirely ref glass jars - consumers are kidding themselves about what is environmentally friendly, but 'my truth' seems to trump facts nowadays. Likewise, people have told me several times I shouldn't use plastic hives, yet the Abelo hives I bought 7 years ago still look almost new and I reckon will last me at least 20 years. As such, the environmental detriment over using imported red cedar is probably minimal.

Anyway, getting miles ahead of myself, I have found you can buy pretty decent compostable clear/opaque 'plastic' bags so if I ever manage to produce any rounds I would think about having one on display with a clear plastic lid and giving a customer the option of buying one with plastic lids or simply placed in a compostable bag.

My wife is buying me the maisemore ross round box for xmas, so I will have a play next season

My oldest polys are now 45 years old and still going strong. I have a box of Ross Rounds which the studiously ignore but this thread has encouraged me to have another go. I did speak to a beekeeper in Yorkshire some years back who swore by strong colonies but he cut a hole in the foundation in the centre of each round as he reckoned that they had more accessibility. Anyone else heard this ploy?

 

[Poly Hive]

I've run supers of RR on poly and if the bees are strong enough and inclined to do so the results can be very good. I suspect though that most bees are not up for it. If you look up "section bees" it may be clearer.

Gary R where did you get poly in 77?

PH

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

I put the RR box's on as a second super when the rape is in flower. If drawn & filled they get spun out & put back on, it's a pain but does help with results.
Colonies on Borage just get a box of rings with foundation then at second visit have another undersupered with two drawn box's above.
Worked this year, fingers crossed for next if we are still here.

 

[Garry R]

I've run supers of RR on poly and if the bees are strong enough and inclined to do so the results can be very good. I suspect though that most bees are not up for it. If you look up "section bees" it may be clearer.

Gary R where did you get poly in 77?

PH

Bernard Mobus - he got them for Craibstone and it was (of course) a German company from Kiel. I worked at the Rowett Institute in Aberdeen. Bernard swore by these poly hives as you know and when he introduced these in Aberdeenshire he met such opposition from the traditionalists (WBC hives with a big soggy sack on the top} he despaired. I am sure you used some of the poly boxes.

He also showed me how to use a Langstroth poly with the side fillet cut out and short lug frames so there were 13 frames in the box. Bernard told me that you cut the bottom off the box to get the right depth for nationals. I still do this and use the cut off bit as an eke. Or cut a bigger piece off a brood box for a super size and then glue two of the left over bits together to make a third super so three supers from two broods. Hope this makes sense.

 

[Mabee]

Bernard Mobus - he got them for Craibstone and it was (of course) a German company from Kiel. I worked at the Rowett Institute in Aberdeen. Bernard swore by these poly hives as you know and when he introduced these in Aberdeenshire he met such opposition from the traditionalists (WBC hives with a big soggy sack on the top} he despaired. I am sure you used some of the poly boxes.

He also showed me how to use a Langstroth poly with the side fillet cut out and short lug frames so there were 13 frames in the box. Bernard told me that you cut the bottom off the box to get the right depth for nationals. I still do this and use the cut off bit as an eke. Or cut a bigger piece off a brood box for a super size and then glue two of the left over bits together to make a third super so three supers from two broods. Hope this makes sense.

I need to ask, how do you cut the boxes? I thought of doing this with commercials but keep thinking if I use a saw it’ll not be even so the boxes won’t sit flush.

 

[Poly Hive]

A table saw Mabee. I cut many of them to size using Bernards table saw. The real problem was the lip left for the frames was very fragile but in general it worked very well. I ran them as Smith top bars, and 12 frames per box.

My saw now has a sliding table;e but if you look up "Table saw sleds" on youtube there are lots of vids on how to make one.

Gary I wasn't aware that the poly was at Craibstone as early as that. Though my timeline is more based on Struan's activities. Good to know though that there is more history than I thought. I used to demo poly starting by saying, this is what you think is poly, breaking a bit of the packaging. Then I pulled forward a strapped floor brood and roof got on top of it and jumped up and down a few times, stopped and said and this is what I am discussing....LOL


PH

 

[Garry R]

A table saw Mabee. I cut many of them to size using Bernards table saw. The real problem was the lip left for the frames was very fragile but in general it worked very well. I ran them as Smith top bars, and 12 frames per box.

My saw now has a sliding table;e but if you look up "Table saw sleds" on youtube there are lots of vids on how to make one.

Gary I wasn't aware that the poly was at Craibstone as early as that. Though my timeline is more based on Struan's activities. Good to know though that there is more history than I thought. I used to demo poly starting by saying, this is what you think is poly, breaking a bit of the packaging. Then I pulled forward a strapped floor brood and roof got on top of it and jumped up and down a few times, stopped and said and this is what I am discussing....LOL


PH

Yes the trick is to use the Smith top bars. I now use Honeypaw Langstroths which are in the flat so really easy to cut on a band saw with a gate correctly set up. A table saw I found can momentarily melt the poly so keep it moving. There are good hand holds. They are a little fiddly to paint with all the indents and I found that with cutting them as I do you have to infill a bit but it's not a big deal. Very robust. The ebay number for the brood box is 165622320087. I make everything else myself - floor roof crownboards. A broodbox, three supers and an eke comes out at £120 which is a deal in my book these days. Do not mix the poly manufacturers as there are slight differences. The outer dimensions (excluding depth) are 45 x 54 cm so easy to remember