Replacing supers - the ideal spring feed?

[thundercat]

Last year, I treated my hive with Apistan, but it was a great April and the bees filled two supers with honey. I took off the supers (as they weren't suitable for human consumption), and I have stored them (to give back to the bees at some point).

I now want give the supers back to the bees. Some people have advised me that I should first extract the honey from the supers. Others say, I should open a few cells in the supers before giving them to the bees. Still others say just put them on top of the hive, and the bees will extract what they need. I'm confused, and I'm not even going to mention whether to put the queen excluder back on.

So, over to you guys...

Thanks in advance

 

[Poly Hive]

This is going to be interesting.

Bees can and do (oddly) drown in liquid honey.

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

Feed to nucs... that will be fun!

 

[oliver90owner]

Unless the bees actually need it, it will likely end up in a super again. You may wish to be using the frames, so extraction is an option. However, April honey is likely OSR and it will be solid.

Not sure why you did not use it as winter stores last autumn, but that might be the best use of it, I would have thought, unless as above, you have some nucs to feed.

For autumn filling of brood boxes (if overwintering as double brood) just place it below the brood box and allow them enough time to move it up. If overwintering on a single brood box, leave a super as winter feed (ie over-winter on a brood and super).

I doubt there are many times a colony needs to be overwintered in England with two deeps of stores.

RAB

 

[Finman]

. Some people have advised me that I should first extract the honey from the supers.

You cannot extract or take off crystallized honey.

Others say, I should open a few cells in the supers before giving them to the bees.

Bees can open honey caps without human.

For example if you put into brood box 4 crystallised frames and other framas are foundations (at the beginning of Summer), bees clean the honey combs, make there brood and then they draw the foundations.

Later you put a crystallized 2 honey comb between brood combs, and now you have got rid off 6 combs.

If you must cut swarming with false swarm, put again 4 honey combs to swarm +laying queen and others foundations. In a week bees clean the honey off.

.

 

[Finman]

Feed to nucs... that will be fun!

You pills!

 

[RoofTops]

If you think your bees are short of stores then give them the frames. If not, what is the point, as others have suggested? You will only give them more space to heat up.

If the honey is still liquid then either extract and store and hope you can use it for winter feeding (diluted) or kick yourself round the garden for using the wrong varroa treatment at the wrong time of the year which has left you with a surplus of unsaleable honey.

 

[itma]

... I took off the supers (as they weren't suitable for human consumption), and I have stored them (to give back to the bees at some point).

I now want give the supers back to the bees. ... Others say, I should open a few cells in the supers before giving them to the bees. Still others say just put them on top of the hive, and the bees will extract what they need. ...

I think they are NOT (as per your thread title) "the ideal Spring feed".
Even though there should not be a problem with residues in the honey - as long as the strips weren't in contact with your honey frames (refer to the instructions) --- personally I'd rather NOT consider that honey as worth risking getting into the crop. Even though FERA/DEFRA say Apistan (& Bayvarol) "can be used during honey flow" (Managing Varroa, page 23) - I also wouldn't regard that honey as fit for human consumption.

However, those frames should be pretty good as an Autumn feed.
And at that time, if you put them above the (unfilled) brood box and above a crown board (or even in a feeder) and 'bruise' them (a bit of uncapping), that would encourage the bees to take the honey down and stock up the somewhat empty brood frames, ready for winter. Putting them 'outside' (ie way up top) and making them leak encourages the bees to "rob" them and take the honey "home" - not to consume it immediately.


While DEFRA etc say that Apistan/Bayvarol can be used in Spring, I'm pretty sure that's unusual - and would only be advised if there was a serious Varroa infestation needing priority treatment - taking priority over the immediate crop.
Using Apistan or Bayvarol at all is being cautioned against, because of the mites becoming resistant to it. The less it is used, the less resistance will be promoted. Then, it can be hoped to be an effective treatment available for emergency use only. But to make it effective, it needs to be withdrawn from routine use, and held back for use only in extremis.
There are lots of other ways of attacking the dreaded mite ...

 

[thundercat]

Regrets

I am absolutely kicking myself for using Apistan!! Who knew that April was going to be the warmest month in 2011 (in the UK anyway)?! I won't be making that mistake again (using Apistan as a spring feed)... On the plus side, the honey is not OSR; it's nice and runny.

The colonies are on double brood boxes, so we didn't think it was worth putting on as a winter feed [as an additional super on top]. We had not thought of putting the supers underneath the double brood boxes in autumn. I would have thought that the bees would have left those as stores rather than moving them up into the brood boxes.

 

[Finman]

.
What ever combs you have in the hive, they have Apistan residues. Where Apistan adhere is cappings and Apistan is not in contact of honey during flow. That super doe not have more poison than rest of winter food in normal hive. Don't over react. That honey is not poison

Every hive must have extra winter food. I cannot be so that old food is zero and then new nextar start to come in.

Bees rub themselves to Apistan strips and spread stuff to other bees and to combs.

 

[Finman]

.
If you cannot sleep, think that honey has only the value of sugar. 10 kg sugar? Is it ten pounds cost

Take cappings off, sunk the combs into 40C water, let the honey melt away. Shake the honey water off and keep the combs.

 

[oliver90owner]

(using Apistan as a spring feed)...

The plot thickens.

What exactly did you do last spring? Treat or feed?

I would have thought that the bees would have left those as stores rather than moving them up into the brood boxes.

Read para. 3 of my post.

 

[Hivemaker.]

If you only used Apistan in the brood boxes, i doubt there is much to worry about regards contamination of that honey,plus any residues will still be in the wax in the brood boxes, even now,and if you buy new wax foundation, even that is likely to have pyrethroid contamination.

 

[Finman]

(using Apistan as a spring feed)...

The plot thickens.

What exactly did you do last spring? Treat or feed?

I would have thought that the bees would have left those as stores rather than moving them up into the brood boxes.

Read para. 3 of my post.

There was simply too much food over winter and bees did not consumed it.
Bees are not stupid that they move their honey store for fun.

Every time when bees move their stores, storing process takes 24% from the food.


Nothing strange in that, that after winter I have lots of food combs. Other hives need them and others do not. I even the stores and I do not feed hives with sugar if I have those frames.

LEFT OVER WINTER FOOD IS NOT POISON. IT IS 80% SUGAR.

 

[oliver90owner]

Finman,

Once again I am left wondering what relevance my post has to your waffling. Absolutely nothing as far as I can ascertain. My post was directed to the OP, not you. Perhaps you should read post #9. Para 1 sentence 3.

If there was a surplus 2 boxes of stores, unfit for human consumption it would seem sensible to remove frames of stores from this double brood (for extraction) and feed back the 'reject' stuff as winter stores. It seems to me to be a case of using double brood rather inefficiently.

Last year I removed and extracted extra frames from my 14 x 12s. Bees do not generally need two deeps, full of winter stores, in the UK - meaning that there will generally be winter stores remaing, in abundance, at spring expansion. If that is sugar syrup, it either needs to be consumed or removed, otherwise it may well end up in the honey.

Little wonder some on the forum have 'apparent' high yields from their colonies. No consideration of the vast amounts of sugar supplied to the colony as 'feed', nor the amount of that sugar in next year's crop.

 

[thundercat]

Contaminated (Not Poison) Honey

I contacted Bayer and they told me the honey was NOT suitable for human consumption. I have no objections to feeding it back to the bees.

Ultimately, my question is what is the best way of giving the honey back to the bees?

 

[Hivemaker.]

I contacted Bayer and they told me the honey was NOT suitable for human consumption.

Is Apistan made by Bayer.

Either keep the super and use in the autumn,or extract the honey and feed back.

 

[MandF]

.
If you cannot sleep, think that honey has only the value of sugar. 10 kg sugar? Is it ten pounds cost

Take cappings off, sunk the combs into 40C water, let the honey melt away. Shake the honey water off and keep the combs.

Thanks for that idea Finman - we still have several frames of crystallised stores from last season and I was wondering how effective feeding them back would be!

 

[thundercat]

Sorry, I mis-wrote... I meant "using Apistan in the spring" not "using Apistan as a spring feed". When I next treat for Varroa in the spring, I will definitely want to use something that can be used during a nectar flow (just in case we get another hot April). Using Apistan was a BIG mistake. The queen was very prolific, and that April, we needed to add supers. Needless to say, there were no strips in the supers, just in the brood boxes.

I'm in no rush to feed back to bees. I could easily keep these until the autumn and feed them back to the bees then. I like the idea of placing the super above a crown board.

Although I said Bayer, the actual reply came from Sebastian Owen (Commercial Development Manager, Vita (Europe) Ltd). His exact reply was "Although we recommend that honey collected during Apistan treatment should not be used for human consumption, this is not strictly necessary. Even during treatment, Apistan leaves no residues in super honey and the honey can be consumed by humans. As you say, however, this is not best practice. Apistan should leave no residues in super wax so there is no problem reusing supers (for human consumption) after treatment."

 

[Finman]

Finman,
Little wonder some on the forum have 'apparent' high yields from their colonies. No consideration of the vast amounts of sugar supplied to the colony as 'feed', nor the amount of that sugar in next year's crop.

And who is that!

The more you feed your hives in winter, the more you get honey in summer. That is strange but true.

That is why douple brood wintering is good. 3 box is even better.