Removing Stores

[beenovice]

Hi All, I had a quick peek over the weekend. I was very pleased to see grubs, giving me the certainty that I have a queen. I was doubtful at Oxalic time as their attitude was terrible. I didn't check every frame but there was a good amount of capped and open brood. Not much laying space seen.
My concern is that there appeared to be lots of stores. At least 4 full frames (both sides), and also stores around the brood areas. Is this leading towards a problem of laying space?
I don't have any drawn brood frames. I have drawn super frames, or brood frames with foundation.
Would you remove some stores now and if so, replace with what.
I'm on a national - single brood at the moment

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

Is the honey accessible or is it set Oilseed Rape or Ivy or even crystalised syrup? If the brood box is bulging with stores and brood I would make sure there was food available in the supers either honey or syrup and give them some frames of foundation to work with.

 

[beenovice]

Thanks Margaret. Stores are a mix of Syrup from autumn feeding and natural collection (probably ivy). Are you suggesting removing some of these stores, replacing with foundation and maybe feeding a syrup. Wont they just store the syrup elsewhere in the brood, compounding the problem?

 

[Finman]

.
You have a little bit emergency situation. You must get laying space for queen and for pollen. You have not drawn brood frames and recent brood area is not big. Perhaps bees are slow to draw foundations. It depends how strong is the colony.

But you may release 2 food frames. Uncap them and soak them into warm water, about 40C. Keep them in bath over night and let the food loosen away.

You may loose 4 kg sugar. which is value £4 and it is not much. Otherwise it takes long time that you can use those store frames in the hive.

- dilute the food from frames
- shake combs empty.
- dilute again in warm water. It takes about 24 hours when you have empty combs.

After that, when the brood box is filled with bees, put that super with combs under the brood box that bees can use it as they like. No excluder.

If you use douple brood system, you will not meet this situation again. With douple brood you get allways extra drawn combs with which you may play in spring or in nuc making, or in artificial swarm cases.

 

[midnight sun]

Nice to see you back Finman!

 

[beenovice]

If I did replace a frame of stores with a frame of foundation, where would I do it? Would I move a frame of stores from one of the outside positions, and do a direct replacement with foundation, or should I try and get the foundation closer to the centre? Say 3 frames from the outside?

 

[itma]

Remove a frame from the outside.
But if you put a foundation frame on the outside it will be ignored until too late.


Therefore insert a frame with foundation between the brood nest and the stores.
Don't split the brood at this time of year.
But next door to the brood is a very good place.

 

[Swarm]

Remove a frame from the outside.
But if you put a foundation frame on the outside it will be ignored until too late.


Therefore insert a frame with foundation between the brood nest and the stores.
Don't split the brood at this time of year.
But next door to the brood is a very good place.

Either the foundation or better still the now empty comb as suggested by Finman but between the brood and remaining stores.

 

[masterBK]

Inserting a comb of foundation between the brood nest and the stores ie the periphery of the brood nest can result in the bees drawing drone comb on worker foundation.

 

[REDWOOD]

Nice to see you back Finman!

+1

 

[Jimmys Mum]

Is the honey accessible or is it set Oilseed Rape or Ivy or even crystalised syrup? If the brood box is bulging with stores and brood I would make sure there was food available in the supers either honey or syrup and give them some frames of foundation to work with.

I've just done exactly this on one of my colones, but I also wish I'd seen Finmans advice first - a neat way of getting some empty drawn comb for emergencies.......a rare commodity that is like gold-dust to newish beekeepers like moi.

I'm off to run a 40 degree bath

 

[richardbees]

Finman

" Tervetuloa takaisin "

blame google if it means something rude!

richard

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Thank you! Now I know what to do with all my syrup-filled frames. I read on here that they can be identified by having dark caps (no air gap). I'm not sure about that yet (will smell for thymol v ivy), but certainly have different-coloured areas of stores and so it sounds like I have the identical situation to beenovice. I'm on double brood, but they filled what they drew. I suppose the extreme response is a shook swarm but speaking for myself I just daren't.

 

[Finman]

Now I know what to do with all my syrup-filled frames. .

It is impossible to know what kind of mixture you have in combs.
But sugar syrup should be easy because it does not crystallize.

When you have diluted comb in a warm bath, try to keep the comb on a grid in horizontal positition. The stuff may drill out by itself. But it depends what is quicker, soaking into warm water again or what.

I have done this in large scale and I know that warm water diluting works.
.

 

[richardbees]

Trying

but speaking for myself I just daren't

Shook swarm or Bailey comb change is 100% successful as long as there's a nectar flow on (mid April onwards in S London)....they've no where else to go!

richard