Rapid colony decline

[Wingy]

Over this last couple of weeks 1 hive seemed to go down hill quickly. Last year it was slow to build up with a new 2018 F1 Buckfast Q but she eventually got into her stride, had a lovely brood pattern and although I didn’t take any honey they went into winter on brood & 1/2.
Today it was the only hive with only a few bees flying so I opened it up and found.
The brood box completely empty, loads of dead bees on the floor, only 4 seams of bees up in the super, there was a few eggs and a small amount of young larvae. The Q was present and seen so I gave them a new floor, and put them all down in the brood box dummied down with the super frames of brood in the middle. They still have plenty of stores.
Will check my other 2 hives tomorrow & possibly donate a frame or two or emerging brood

 

[Poly Hive]

I would have put the super on the floor minus the brood box and made up some insulated dummies to suit.

The bees have been trying to maintain heat and you have given them double the space?

Nor would I think of giving them brood from another colony as this is cross over time and they need all the bees they can hatch. More damage.

If it were May say then yes but not now. If you lose the poor one then so be it, the genetics are not worth keeping.

PH

 

[Finman]

Over this last couple of weeks 1 hive seemed to go down hill quickly. Last year it was slow to build up with a new 2018 F1 Buckfast Q but she eventually got into her stride, had a lovely brood pattern and although I didn’t take any honey they went into winter on brood & 1/2.
Today it was the only hive with only a few bees flying so I opened it up and found.
The brood box completely empty, loads of dead bees on the floor, only 4 seams of bees up in the super, there was a few eggs and a small amount of young larvae. The Q was present and seen so I gave them a new floor, and put them all down in the brood box dummied down with the super frames of brood in the middle. They still have plenty of stores.
Will check my other 2 hives tomorrow & possibly donate a frame or two or emerging brood

do not waste healthy brood to that hive. Problem my be nosema. New bees become sick, I bet so.

 

[foghornleghorn]

Sounds like cbpv

 

[Finman]

Sounds like cbpv

cbpv virus makes glossy black bees. No hairs. Do you have such?

 

[Millet]

Over this last couple of weeks 1 hive seemed to go down hill quickly. Last year it was slow to build up with a new 2018 F1 Buckfast Q but she eventually got into her stride, had a lovely brood pattern and although I didn’t take any honey they went into winter on brood & 1/2.
Today it was the only hive with only a few bees flying so I opened it up and found.
The brood box completely empty, loads of dead bees on the floor, only 4 seams of bees up in the super, there was a few eggs and a small amount of young larvae. The Q was present and seen so I gave them a new floor, and put them all down in the brood box dummied down with the super frames of brood in the middle. They still have plenty of stores.
Will check my other 2 hives tomorrow & possibly donate a frame or two or emerging brood

I have one here doing similar i bought several Queens from the same reputable supplier..the one that has gone down hill started of the strongest the others are ticking away nicely.. my failed colony is a dud 2018 bought in Queen..maybe yours is the same..

 

[fatshark]

Sounds like cbpv

Wrong time of year and colony won't be anything like strong enough ...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

either spring dwindle or Nosema Ceranae by the sounds of it.

 

[SDM]

Wrong time of year and colony won't be anything like strong enough ...

Surely clustering is comparable with congestion for being ideal circumstances for the spread of CBPV?
The only cases ive seen were early spring.

 

[masterBK]

I've come across CBPV outbreaks in spring in the past. There are two manifestations of it. The one Finman refered to is known as syndrome 2. With Syndrome 1 you don't get the black shiny hairless bees but get trembling of the wings & body & can’t fly. You may find hundreds of them crawling on the ground & up plant stems. Tend to be found in groups on the top bars of the hive. May have bloated abdomens (resulting from distension of the honey sac). May have K wings (partially spread , dislocated) which in the past this was wrongly associated with Acarine (according to Dr L Bailey)
With Syndrome 2 Affected bees are generally smaller with shiny black or dark abdomens. They are almost hairless as the other bees in the colony pick on them & nibble their hairs off. They have a relatively broad abdomen. The guard bees seem to try & prevent them entering the hive as they would intercept robbing bees (hence the old term black robber disease). A few days after infection trembling begins. they lose the ability to fly & death soon follows.

 

[Wingy]

Thanks for the replies, I have looked at cbpv and a number of videos and nothing resembles what I saw in my colony.
Late December they had a high varoa drop (as did the hive next to it). I think the autumn Apiguard hadn’t worked effectively so I did a series of OA vapes.
As said in my OP this Q has been a bit slow her direct and younger sister steamed ahead very quickly and only took a short brood break.
This Q has only just started to lay again but unfortunately most of the winter bees have died off, some are still flying and bringing in pollen and other than small numbers all seems fine with the bees.
The hive which I am considering donating a frame of brood from has long since past the point of cross over. She started to brood about Christmas time and has not stopped even during the later cold snap, probably due to a little experiment I tried to assist build up. I have already added a second brood box to this colony and had to remove the entrance reducer as there are now so many bees I feel if not knocked back a bit swarming is imminent.
Plan is to try and bring the weak colony on sufficient enough to re Q as soon as possible

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Looks like this colony hasn't the bees to develop a viable spring build up, Even with a new queen you won't have the nurse bees to tend and increase the brood.
I would cut my losses.

 

[Wingy]

Got into my garden hive today and sorted it out. This is the hive I was going to pinch the brood from but there was brood all over the place as the Q seemed to be laying wherever she could. Pulled some stores and gave drawn comb so hopefully they will get their house in order.
I decided not to take any brood and the dwindling allotment hive will either sort itself or die out.