Quintrex Cage

[Erichalfbee]

I make my own without the fiddly queen intruduction flap. Im nervous about picking the queen up and squeezing her through an aperture so I find it’s easier to put her on the frame and then put the cage over her.

saw them at the NHS and to be honest they looked like a enthusiastic amateur had made them . edges were sharp as hell too and expensive.

ITLD buys plastic in bulk far cheaper and in my opinion, better

You need sharp edges to get the cage down to the midrib.

 

[Finman]

I'll try direct introduction this year if I can produce plenty of queens

IT is better first to look a while, that bees accept the queen. When the queen walk on comp, the queen is safe, if workers do not much react on her


But I have saved tens of queens when I looked half hour later, what is going on there.
Often bees start to ball the queen, even if it seemed first that things are ok.

Put the queen with the ball under water, and bees reliese their jaws from the queen.

The queen has got often poison on its skin and water washes it off.

.

 

[maddydog]

IT is better first to look a while, that bees accept the queen. When the queen walk on comp, the queen is safe, if workers do not much react on her


But I have saved tens of queens when I looked half hour later, what is going on there.
Often bees start to ball the queen, even if it seemed first that things are ok.

Put the queen with the ball under water, and bees reliese their jaws from the queen.

The queen has got often poison on its skin and water washes it off.

.

Thanks Finski.

 

[B+.]

IT is better first to look a while, that bees accept the queen. When the queen walk on comp, the queen is safe, if workers do not much react on her

This is good advice if the queen is in-lay and the workers recognise her as a laying queen. However, if you have received a queen through the post where she may have spent several days out of the hive, a cage like this is invaluable.
A couple of years ago, I received two instrumentally inseminated queens that had spent two weeks in the post. Some of the workers accompanying the queens had died, but, the queens survived. I introduced them under my home-made push-in cages and they were both accepted.

 

[castanea]

Hi I am interested to apply the direct introduction can you please advise how to do it correctly
Thanks

 

[B+.]

Hi I am interested to apply the direct introduction can you please advise how to do it correctly
Thanks

I would only use direct introduction if I was replacing a mated queen with another mated queen that was in laying condition. That way, they see the new queen as being of equal value https://youtu.be/Wm7RqXJD4_w?t=9m55s
Otherwise, I'd use a push-in cage

 

[Finman]

Hi I am interested to apply the direct introduction can you please advise how to do it correctly
Thanks

You have only 3 hives. I do not recommend to use it.

Even if I have long experience about that, I use safer methods when I buy new queens. Bees may attach on the new queen and sting so guickly that you can do nothing.

Use push in cage as B+ says.

Bees may accept directly that queen, that another one they would kill at once.

.

 

[Plenty of honey]

You have only 3 hives. I do not recommend to use it.

Even if I have long experience about that, I use safer methods when I buy new queens. Bees may attach on the new queen and sting so guickly that you can do nothing.

Use push in cage as B+ says.

Bees may accept directly that queen, that another one they would kill at once.

.

Direct introduction works, but like Finman says, your risking a lot. I cant speak for Hivemaker, who regularly reports of the success of this method, however, i can tell you, he knows what he's doing, knows the risks and
knows his stocks and their behaviour. Many other factors that you only get get lots and lots of experience over many years.
Dont waste your queens, just put them under a push in cage, its by far the safest method. There is no prises for a dead queen and the start of laying workers!!

 

[maddydog]

However, if you have received a queen through the post where she may have spent several days out of the hive, a cage like this is invaluable.

B+ do you have any problems with the receiving colony trying to supercede the new q? I'm wondering how much of an effect mixing a thoroughbred with mongrels has.

 

[B+.]

I cant speak for Hivemaker, who regularly reports of the success of this method, however, i can tell you, he knows what he's doing, knows the risks and knows his stocks and their behaviour. Many other factors that you only get get lots and lots of experience over many years.

I think you'll find Hivemaker is talking about replacing queens with other laying queens he has recently taken from mating nucs/other hives.
If the queen has been unable to lay for any length of time, its far safer to use a push-in cage.

 

[Plenty of honey]

I think you'll find Hivemaker is talking about replacing queens with other laying queens he has recently taken from mating nucs/other hives.
If the queen has been unable to lay for any length of time, its far safer to use a push-in cage.

yes i understand, thanks, my point really was, anyone who's only requeening a couple of hives should not attempt direct introduction (in my view)! the risks are far too great, whether its replacing a laying queen with a laying queen or a laying queen with a non laying cage or queen thats arrived in the post (as you said before),its fine in experienced handlers of queens. Most should just stick to a proven method and insert the queen under a push in cage and it removes 99% of the risk.
With the greatest respect, thats pushing the limits of many beekeepers and thats the truth!

 

[For want of a better word]

B+ do you have any problems with the receiving colony trying to supercede the new q? I'm wondering how much of an effect mixing a thoroughbred with mongrels has.

Push in cage is easy to make,,, and use
Tried the BekyBies plastic on... does not penetrate into the wax enough.

Mixing thoroughbred with mongrels.... no problem... often requeen buckie/carniogoitalian/cockerpoo swarms with thouroughbred native Cornish black Amm !

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

B+ do you have any problems with the receiving colony trying to supercede the new q? I'm wondering how much of an effect mixing a thoroughbred with mongrels has.

When I am forming a nuc, I usually raise frames of brood above a queen excluder (making sure the queen is below the excluder). Then, 9 days later, any eggs the queen has just laid will be sealed brood. Of course, they will realise they are queenless and start to raise emergency cells above the excluder. I move the nuc to a new stand and go through the frames carefully (even to the extent of shaking the bees from each frame). You can't leave any queen cells behind so they ALL have to be destroyed. With no queen, and no way to make one, they will usually accept any queen you give them. However, with a valuable queen, it makes sense to introduce her under a push-in cage so that she has plenty of time to be accepted before she is released to the general population.
It's not so much that there is a difference in the genes that gets a queen killed. It's more that she doesn't act/smell like a laying queen.

 

[Finman]

.
Even if you use push in cage, often bees try to kill the queen through the cage. They may continue this hating two days. Otherwise cage would not be needed.

If the queen starts to lay under the cage, bees accept better the queen.

If bees are hostile, wait for 5 days that they have capped their emergency cells. Then they will accept the new queen.

Even if Hivemaker succeeds always in introduction, it is far from normal. Do not trust, that you are so lucky.

.

 

[B+.]

Push in cage is easy to make,,, and use

Here's a photo of one of my home made push-in cages (https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3728)
I used it to introduce a pure carnica queen to a de-queened colony that originated from a swarm.
Take a piece of mesh (I used the plastic coated wire mesh Thornes used to sell). Snip the mesh 1/2 - 3/4" and fold the mesh over to form a cage. You can solder the corners together if you want, but, I find they are secure enough without it.

 

[Plenty of honey]

Push in cage is easy to make,,, and use
Tried the BekyBies plastic on... does not penetrate into the wax enough.

Mixing thoroughbred with mongrels.... no problem... often requeen buckie/carniogoitalian/cockerpoo swarms with thouroughbred native Cornish black Amm !

Yeghes da

I agree, but just a couple of times, I've had atrocious AMM (local nasty black) kill a queen even after the cage has been lifted and theres eggs in the cells (and recently born nurse bees under the cage). I now lift the cage and watch the behaviour. if i am at all worried, i simply move the cage across and put her under again for a second period of confinement, usually just for a couple of days more. at the same time, checking for queen cells, or a (missed or stray)recently hatched virgin on the loose. it can easily happen. Most of the time though, sweet!!!!
when you consider the worth of the queen and how she will do so much once she's accepted, then one further operation is still worth it by far!

 

[For want of a better word]

Here's a photo of one of my home made push-in cages (https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3728)
I used it to introduce a pure carnica queen to a de-queened colony that originated from a swarm

My homespun bodges have a 1" strip of plastic covering the top and two sides of a corner with a piece of fondant pressed into it... also give queen somewhere to hide!
Intro into a q- nuc also a good idea..... especially when someone has given you a queen worth £100 on the open market!!

Yeghes da

 

[Plenty of honey]

Lifting the cage.

https://youtu.be/EBx6Pc-y30Y

 

[Eyeman]

I agree, but just a couple of times, I've had atrocious AMM (local nasty black) kill a queen even after the cage has been lifted and theres eggs in the cells (and recently born nurse bees under the cage). I now lift the cage and watch the behaviour. if i am at all worried, i simply move the cage across and put her under again for a second period of confinement, usually just for a couple of days more. at the same time, checking for queen cells, or a (missed or stray)recently hatched virgin on the loose. it can easily happen. Most of the time though, sweet!!!!
when you consider the worth of the queen and how she will do so much once she's accepted, then one further operation is still worth it by far!

There's always one colony that doesn't play by the rules. Mine was a double national that I tried to re-queen x3 times with my own stock- she was killed each time even after a period of laying. In the end I let then raise a queen from one of the queen cells they raised from the test frames (I kept putting in) after killing off the last queen and they were happy.

 

[B+.]

There's always one colony that doesn't play by the rules. Mine was a double national that I tried to re-queen x3 times with my own stock- she was killed each time even after a period of laying. In the end I let then raise a queen from one of the queen cells they raised from the test frames (I kept putting in) after killing off the last queen and they were happy.

I suspect they had a virgin, or, you had a large number of older foragers in the nuc. If you follow the method I described above, you'll have more success.