Question regarding effects of multi mating.

[buzzerB]

As the virgin Queen will mate with arround 10 different drones, does this effect the characteristics of the workers she produces to a noticeable degree? i.e. Is the different sperm mixed up straight away providing a hap-hazard colony or is each drone's sperm used up in turn producing a gradual differential in colony temperament?

Hope I have put this in an understandable way!

 

[Finman]

.
Yes they mix their sperm and they sting. it is same what they do but they string. It is a law of nature.

 

[drstitson]

Mixed.

Not noticed the variation between your workers yet?

Try tipping 10 different soups in a pan and then trying to extract "pure" samples of each.

 

[victor meldrew]

Mixed.

Not noticed the variation between your workers yet?

Try tipping 10 different soups in a pan and then trying to extract "pure" samples of each.

There is a myth propagated reference to the spermathica compartmenting the sperm from each drone . I think it's a load of tosh . the odd bod may have noticed a colour change in a good few colony members in a short period (pure coincidence ) and read more into it than his observations justify?
VM

 

[Norton]

Yes it is mixed up and probably several from the same source are released together. The grand plan of nature is to have genetic variation in the colony. This avoids having all the individuals with the same genetic make up that would make them vulnerable to disease if there was an inherited weakness. Colonies with a high level of genetic variation seem to be able to handle every day problems better and thrive. Seems like variety is the spice of life!

 

[Finman]

.
When drones mate, only 10% of sperm goes to the final store place.

In a small yard the biggest danger of inbreeding is that you take queens from one best queen.
Next summer there are too much sisters and crone cousins in the yard.

.

 

[buzzerB]

When you think about it - it IS logical, as Nature is. I have noticed that the colour of workers does seem to change as the season develops but thought that would be seasonal adaptation or even sun bleaching.

I attended a talk at the 2011 Stoneleigh Convention given by an American, Keith Delaplane, who is a Professor at University of Georgia. His conclusion seemed to be that whichever characteristic they tried to instill into their bees failed, because bees retain their 'jack of all trades' traits relentlessly. Rather like the species that tries to master them!

 

[buzzerB]

.
When drones mate, only 10% of sperm goes to the final store place.

In a small yard the biggest danger of inbreeding is that you take queens from one best queen.
Next summer there are too much sisters and crone cousins in the yard.

.

What effect does this have on the breeding line? Any idea how to avoid breeding in over defensiveness?
Our bees developed a habit of attacking our forearms at the end of the last season just after you opened the hive. Smoke and being quiet and gentle made no difference. If you left them for 10 minutes or so they were bearable. Or was it the results of our local drought?

 

[Skyhook]

I was surpeised the first time I saw different coloured workers on the comb together, butthe definitely come out as a mixed bag.

 

[Erichalfbee]

couldn't resist

 

[Finman]

What effect does this have on the breeding line? Any idea how to avoid breeding in over defensiveness?
Our bees developed a habit of attacking our forearms at the end of the last season just after you opened the hive. Smoke and being quiet and gentle made no difference. If you left them for 10 minutes or so they were bearable. Or was it the results of our local drought?

non defensive habit is a result of human selection. Without selection bees get their original nature back. So you must continue selection all the time.

1) bye from a professional beekeeper mated queens.

2) you must change the drone origin too in the yard ....or perhaps you have nearbye a genelpool what you cannot control.

3) rear more queens than you need and select the best and discard first agressive and diseases carrying.

4) take the first daughter generation from byed queens.

 

[buzzerB]

non defensive habit is a result of human selection. Without selection bees get their original nature back. So you must continue selection all the time.

1) bye from a professional beekeeper mated queens.

2) you must change the drone origin too in the yard ....or perhaps you have nearbye a genelpool what you cannot control.

3) rear more queens than you need and select the best and discard first agressive and diseases carrying.

4) take the first daughter generation from byed queens.

Thanks Finman.
As we are 'accidental' beekeepers and were chosen by a colony that took up residence in our garden, we are rather spoilt and may have not taken up bee keeping had they been 'nutters'.
I have been trying to hang on to the daughters and to keep the strain as their honey production, temper. Varroa resistance and winter tolerance was good. I am more interested in keeping bees native to England than buying in specially engineered Queens and will definitely avoid foreign imports.
Surely, aggressive behavior is variable in every feral strain? If you have an aggressive Queen her daughter may be quieter [ or vice versa] or the behavior may have an environmental reason i.e. low nectar supplies?

 

[buzzerB]

Erica.
Good photo! Is it 'real'? Looks like good way of choosing lotto Numbers!

sense of humour is necessary in beekeeping.

 

[drstitson]

"If you have an aggressive Queen her daughter may be quieter"

Yes. But may be worse. or the trait may just re-emerge at F2 generation after crossing with drones descended from the original.

Unless bearing an extremely useful quality that needs perpetuating no matter what (with the hope of crossing out the aggression along the way) then no-one should consciously rear queens from nasties.

 

[oliver90owner]

BuzzerB,

You said: ...as their honey production, temper. Varroa resistance and winter tolerance was good. I am more interested in keeping bees native to England than buying in specially engineered Queens and will definitely avoid foreign imports.

While I am in agreement with the latter part, I feel I must play devil's advocate here and point out that as a 'descending' swarm from anywhere, into your garden, you have little or no idea of the provenance of the queen in your colony.

If a prime swarm, as I suspect it may have been, the queen may have been an importation or 'specially engineered'. Even if the swarm issued from a nearby feral swarm, that colony could easily be an 'escapee' in very recent times.

I wish you luck with your bees, but some selection will invariably be required to maintain a reasonable temper.

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

You said: ... I am more interested in keeping bees native to England than buying in specially engineered Queens and will definitely avoid foreign imports.
, RAB

And what is the value of that?

You have no native bees to England bees because White Isle disease killed them. In England the most popular races are Italian and Carniola. You cannot fight against that fact and the genepool what is around you..

Englishmen delivered thet native Black Devil to all new continents where they went in old good days but they are not nursed any more in those continent. In Tasmania it seems to be an original population in woods.

And if you want to get rid off EFB, change the gene pool to resistant.

.

 

[mbc]

And what is the value of that?

You have no native bees to England bees because White Isle disease killed them. In England the most popular races are Italian and Carniola. You cannot fight against that fact and the genepool what is around you..

Englishmen delivered thet native Black Devil to all new continents where they went in old good days but they are not nursed any more in those continent. In Tasmania it seems to be an original population in woods.

And if you want to get rid off EFB, change the gene pool to resistant.

.

Norwegian humour ?
Joking aside, anybody who believes IOW disease killed off anywhere near 100% of the native bee in England is clearly delusional and as for the most popular races currently kept, it would make an interesting study to genuinely map the occurrence of each type and their mongrel's.
Certainly in the more marginal beekeeping areas, where the influence of commercial and well-to-do beekeepers importing bees is less, the bees are likely to be mostly derived from native amm ( this is certainly true of my patch)

 

[Finman]

.
You and your natives

 

[DanBee]

Norwegian humour ?
as for the most popular races currently kept, it would make an interesting study to genuinely map the occurrence of each type and their mongrels.

I'd be interested to know how many assumed near-native black bees are in fact Carnica derivatives... I think a lot of people journey in hope

 

[mbc]

I'd be interested to know how many assumed near-native black bees are in fact Carnica derivatives... I think a lot of people journey in hope

No doubt, but so long as they're happy.