Open mated queen genetics

[Repwoc]

Have I got this right?

A virgin queen may mate with 20 (some say up to 40) drones, all these drones could be from different hives and so have different parents and different genes. So the eggs our open mated lays are fertilised at random from a store of their mixed sperm, and so brood on each frame (or in each cell) will have random genes from this mixture and so are likely to have different characteristics, a mixture of 'good' and 'bad'.

So a queen that lays chalkbrood or consistently lays the brood to give a 'hive from hell' must be carry a dominant 'nasty' gene herself? Or are many innocent queens being squished without good cause?

Discuss!

You are assuming that those bad traits come just from the drones the queen has mated with. If they are a result of the queen's genes, then all or a high proportion of her progeny may be affected.

Even if the bad traits are passed on via drone genes, could a daughter queen with a bad drone father produce an angry / chalk brood susceptible colony? Thus, a mating with a single bad drone may produce bad colonies in the subsequent generarion.

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[Finman]

.
Stinging colony is very capable in nature when it protects its nest. Like Cheer said, select like nature would do.

Why the colony is angry? It does not matter, is it from drones or queen or boath. You must change the queen. You cannot do anything to drones.

.

 

[For want of a better word]

Is that true of your Localy Adapted Cornish Black Bees? Make just enough stores to survive the winter, I mean, rather than produce a crop for the farmer? I can well believe it, as natural selection will always select for the highest number of surviving colonies every year. That means issueing as many swarms of survivable size as possible, while the parent colony still remains viable over winter. High honey producing colonies (those that produce an excess) can only be the result of selective breeding over a long period by humans, including your so-called 'localy adapted' 'Cornish' black bees, if they do indeed produce a crop.

The only way that bees will become truly 'localy adapted' is if beekeeping is banned entirely and the bees are left entirely to live as they wish. Obviously, it's not going to happen.

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Of couscous you are correct... I would never argue with a troll!

Try reading Jo Widdicombs's book on bee improvement.
I am probably messing up the native Cornish black bee genetics by selecting for temperement, productivity, and all the other traits a beekeeper can wish for.

Looking at the honey production statistics as published in Beefarmer's magazine ( So professional not two hive amateurs) our colony honey production is on a par with and mostly better than the UK averages for last season.

How would your F1 Buckfasts do if left to go feral... if indeed they survived a long wet and cold winter in windy maritime temperate Cornwall??

 

[For want of a better word]

.
Stinging colony is very capable in nature when it protects its nest. Like Cheer said, select like nature would do.

Why the colony is angry? It does not matter, is it from drones or queen or boath. You must change the queen. You cannot do anything to drones.

.

Sometime Finnie my little snow faerie.. you do post some absolutely idiotic comments for a guy with more degrees than Kelvin!!

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

Sometime Finnie my little snow faerie.. you do post some absolutely idiotic comments for a guy with more degrees than Kelvin!!

Yeghes da

I understand. If you do not have basic knowledge in genetics, it is difficult to understand my comments.

 

[Beefriendly]

I understand. If you do not have basic knowledge in genetics, it is difficult to understand my comments.

Finman apologies.
It seem my putting hoppy on ignore means he is trolling you and others instead of his usual prey.... me.
But I must say it's quite pleasant not reading his/Cornish Amms/Yellow devils/Feed the trolls/locally adapted nonsensical types of posts.

 

[Finman]

Finman apologies.
It seem my putting hoppy on ignore means he is trolling you and others instead of his usual prey.... me.
But I must say it's quite pleasant not reading his/Cornish Amms/Yellow devils/Feed the trolls/locally adapted nonsensical types of posts.

It is not trolling. It is bullying. I know that bullying is a native game of British adult people. But the secret remains.... WHY . What he gets from that adult entertainment? Kicks? He is not only one there.

Ice Age native bees would be a good joke, but good jokes are told only once . Not EVERY week.

When repeating enough the change of medication is not enough. It is better to change the whole doctor.

Ps: one good joke is maritime, rainy, windy, cold weather. It is like British have only bees which are near sea coast..

 

[Beefriendly]

It is not trolling. It is bullying. I know that bullying is a native game of British adult people. But the secret remains.... WHY . What he gets from that adult entertainment? Kicks? He is not only one there.

By Gad Sir....I think you have the measure of the mouse... LOL

 

[Stiffy]

Looking at the honey production statistics as published in Beefarmer's magazine ( So professional not two hive amateurs) our colony honey production is on a par with and mostly better than the UK averages for last season.

How would your F1 Buckfasts do if left to go feral... if indeed they survived a long wet and cold winter in windy maritime temperate Cornwall??

You forgot to mention that the BF mag also said the majority of bee farmers who submitted records keep Buckfast bees. The fact your bees had a larger harvest than the average is a poor comparison as some parts of the country suffered a poor season with excess summer heat.
Would F1 Buckfast survive the so called windy, maritime climate......well my Apiary sites are probably more exposed to these conditions than most and they thrive with minimal losses, they also produce a good surplus and last year/this spring, they have excelled.
S

 

[For want of a better word]

You forgot to mention that the BF mag also said the majority of bee farmers who submitted records keep Buckfast bees. The fact your bees had a larger harvest than the average is a poor comparison as some parts of the country suffered a poor season with excess summer heat.
Would F1 Buckfast survive the so called windy, maritime climate......well my Apiary sites are probably more exposed to these conditions than most and they thrive with minimal losses, they also produce a good surplus and last year/this spring, they have excelled.
S

I have to agree with that but, last season my Italian bees did not fair so well Cornish Natives.
Climate it seems makes a huge difference... which is the reason why I keep different types of bee.

As for the ridiculous comments made by "trolly the fish" and" dolly the snow faerie"... to be expected from two who both have been banned for taking bullying stances!!

Chons da

 

[Beefriendly]

You forgot to mention
S

Hoppy also forgot to mention (on another thread) that he was making cosies from kingspan to overwinter his precocious "locally adapted" bees in.
Beggars belief.

BTW if we all stopped quoting the troll/bully then I wouldn't get to see his nonsensical ramblings.

 

[For want of a better word]

Hoppy also forgot to mention (on another thread) that he was making cosies from kingspan to overwinter his precocious "locally adapted" bees in.
Beggars belief.

BTW if we all stopped quoting the troll/bully then I wouldn't get to see his nonsensical ramblings.

Here we go again with all the usual Beefriendly trolling and bullying and kicking the player.

The "Cosies" were for WBC brood boxes that I picked up because I am a pleasant chap and the previous owner liked the cut of my jib.
I was going to overwinter ITALIAN bees in them.
However I have now found a new owner for them, as Jenkinsbrynmyer suggested sold some and did a swap for WRC National broods with a primary school that uses WBC hives as they are easier for 9 to 12 year olds to manage.

Chons da

 

[SDM]

How would your F1 Buckfasts do if left to go feral... if indeed they survived a long wet and cold winter in windy maritime temperate Cornwall??

Outstandingly well if what I read here and in the Welsh beekeeping magazine are anything to go by. Last issue told the tale of a beekeeper a few miles from me losing 80% of his local bees to the beast from the east. It killed 4 nucs of mine too but that was a flying chicken coop roof not a couple of days of frost. Then you've got swarm and mbc telling us how glad they are they didn't take a spring harvest as their bees have consumed most of what they stored . I didn't harvest either but they still had between 40 and 70lb left each after the June gap/poor weather combo. I'm yet to see anything a black bee does better than a good Buckfast frankly and that's in a windier wetter colder climate than balmy Cornwall.

 

[Swarm]

Outstandingly well if what I read here and in the Welsh beekeeping magazine are anything to go by. Last issue told the tale of a beekeeper a few miles from me losing 80% of his local bees to the beast from the east. It killed 4 nucs of mine too but that was a flying chicken coop roof not a couple of days of frost. Then you've got swarm and mbc telling us how glad they are they didn't take a spring harvest as their bees have consumed most of what they stored . I didn't harvest either but they still had between 40 and 70lb left each after the June gap/poor weather combo. I'm yet to see anything a black bee does better than a good Buckfast frankly and that's in a windier wetter colder climate than balmy Cornwall.

I thought that was your average harvest per colony?

 

[SDM]

I thought that was your average harvest per colony?

Did you ? No my 5 year average is a bit higher than the maximum of the two figures for this spring but isn't entirely a reflection on the bees I keep since I wasted 4 years also running local swarms and a few pure black colonies. Probably worth mentioning that 5 year average includes my 2nd ever year beekeeping whilst adding about 25 colonies annually and has risen each year. No doubt that average would be higher had they all been Buckfast manages with the experience I've gained.
Ask me again in 5 yrs if you want an all Buckfast average ran by a fairly competent beekeeper.

 

[For want of a better word]

If the only thing farmers thought about was to go into "factory farming" and producing volume with a small profit margin to compete with the bland imported foodstuffs ( eggs/milk/beef /pork/lamb/honey........

Why do they bother to keep what are often sneeringly called "rare breeds"?

Because some are prepared to pay a premium price for LOCALLY PRODUCED eggs/milk/beef /pork/lamb/honey........

That has provenience and probably tastes better!

QED

 

[mbc]

Outstandingly well if what I read here and in the Welsh beekeeping magazine are anything to go by. Last issue told the tale of a beekeeper a few miles from me losing 80% of his local bees to the beast from the east. It killed 4 nucs of mine too but that was a flying chicken coop roof not a couple of days of frost. Then you've got swarm and mbc telling us how glad they are they didn't take a spring harvest as their bees have consumed most of what they stored . I didn't harvest either but they still had between 40 and 70lb left each after the June gap/poor weather combo. I'm yet to see anything a black bee does better than a good Buckfast frankly and that's in a windier wetter colder climate than balmy Cornwall.

Erm, not me, I've already got several tons of lovely spring honey safely in buckets and my bees set up nicely to take advantage of whatever summer brings.

 

[SDM]

Erm, not me, I've already got several tons of lovely spring honey safely in buckets and my bees set up nicely to take advantage of whatever summer brings.

Must have misunderstood
.
QUOTE=mbc;676986]Bees working hard again, no discernable surplus or nectar shake yet but that's in the post, it's been a hard few weeks for them here.
May 27th to June 19th, almost a month of eating more than they were collecting.[/QUOTE]

 

[mbc]

I take advantage of the June gap to clear off full supers without any unripe honey in them otherwise I'd have no empty supers.

 

[SDM]

I take advantage of the June gap to clear off full supers without any unripe hoey in them otherwise I'd have no empty supers.

This is the first time I've seen a June gap of more than a week, last year none at all. What do you do in a normal ( whatever "normal" is) year ?
I took the approach of having 4 and a bit supers per hive. Plenty for my averages. You must be seeing a lot more honey per hive than me.