Queencells in my introduction nuc

[Obee1]

So I made up a little nuc last Thursday - one and a bit brood frames one food two drawn combs. Left for a day then put a new queen under a home made push in cage (about the size of quarter of a frame). 5 days later bees are ignoring queen under the cage - some bees have emerged in there and she has started laying - albeit with some double laid cells which I assume is due to lack of empty cells.
However- there are two queen cells at the top of the small patch of brood - the frame she isn't on. They are not that well formed but do have larva in them.
Is this normal or do I have a problem. I hadnt looked at the frame since it went in so no idea when they were started but they were not there prior to going in the nuc.

Any thoughts?

 

[Erichalfbee]

So I made up a little nuc last Thursday - one and a bit brood frames one food two drawn combs. Left for a day then put a new queen under a home made push in cage (about the size of quarter of a frame). 5 days later bees are ignoring queen under the cage - some bees have emerged in there and she has started laying - albeit with some double laid cells which I assume is due to lack of empty cells.
However- there are two queen cells at the top of the small patch of brood - the frame she isn't on. They are not that well formed but do have larva in them.
Is this normal or do I have a problem. I hadnt looked at the frame since it went in so no idea when they were started but they were not there prior to going in the nuc.

Any thoughts?

Take them out and set the queen free

 

[birdsandbees]

Take them out and set the queen free

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

so you made up a Q- nuc, left them a day then put a new queen in without pulling down any emergency queen cells ?

 

[misterbee82]

If you don't remove the queen cells they'll probably replace her with a new virgin queen. If you don't want this you'll need to remove the queen cells promptly.

 

[Obee1]

Yes I did squish the QC and release the queen. I am leaving them for a few days to settle. Just wondered if it is normal to see QC in a nuc with a queen under push in cage.

 

[Obee1]

so you made up a Q- nuc, left them a day then put a new queen in without pulling down any emergency queen cells ?

No. When I put her in there were no QC. They have appeared 5 days after she was placed in the push in cage.

 

[pargyle]

If you don't remove the queen cells they'll probably replace her with a new virgin queen. If you don't want this you'll need to remove the queen cells promptly.

Not necessarily ... Bees are opportunist .. if the queen in there is, in their opinion, a good one then the odds are that the queen cells would not be allowed to develop. In the circumstances of the OP I would agree that the best course of action is to release the queen and removed the queen cells ...

 

[Erichalfbee]

Left for a day then put a new queen under a home made push in cage
I would have put the queen in as I made the nuc up.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No. When I put her in there were no QC. They have appeared 5 days after she was placed in the push in cage.

The day's wait will have been enough for the panic button to be pressed - they will have started work on EQC's by then and as the queen then introduced was a total stranger, they'd have carried on building them, best to check again after a days or so in that case. An hour's wait is more than ample before putting the queen into a made up nuc.

 

[Obee1]

Left for a day then put a new queen under a home made push in cage
I would have put the queen in as I made the nuc up.

Yes, previously I have done just that. This time the weather forecast for the date of queens arrival was not good. The nuc was sourced from my mega hive and on performing demaree the day before queenie was due I just had too many brood frames - hence the nuc was made one day earlier than needed.

Note to self- Add that to the list of things I won't be doing again! (The list is getting very long now!)

 

[Poly Hive]

I suspect the queen will be balled on release as her pheromones have not been strong enough to repress the cell building. I am assuming (dangerous) that the rest of the bees do have access to her via this home made cage?

Double laying is not a sign of lack of room but of a new queen learning control.

PH

 

[masterBK]

Double laying in the circumstances mentioned (under a caged system) can indeed be because of lack of available cells. See this regularly in Apideas.

 

[Tremyfro]

Thank you for posting this....it just goes to show how quickly the bees make adjustments for survival.
I've put this on my list of 'donts' as well!

 

[Poly Hive]

Yep I see it in mini nucs, nucs and full colonies, WHEN there is a new queen on the go. Hence my comment on not lack of space. It is quite normal for a newly started queen to go through a learning curve as she controls her laying.

PH

 

[Eyeman]

If your unlucky you'll see multiple eggs in cells with spring dwindling. Not enough bees to support the queen.

 

[masterBK]

I often put older laying queens into an Apidea with a cupful of bees as a holding operation and insurance scheme in case I need a spare queen in an emergency in the next few weeks (usually to help out other members of my association) and find they do it as well so I am fairly sure that lack of space can be a factor. My other evidence is than when I put a breeder queen in the plastic cupkit box for a few days then I often find more than one egg in a cell when I go back to release her after a couple of days and my breeder queens are going on 3 yrs old. I do agree however young queens do double lay sometimes when they first start up laying.

 

[Obee1]

Polyhive. I too was concerned at lack of queen pheromone causing queencells to remain in the nuc. Queen was in a largish push in cage but unfortunately there were barely any empty cells as I hadn't noticed that there was nectar back filled into the cells prior to my placing the cage. All in all not the best introduction.

However - the good news is I just looked in quickly to see she has laid a load of eggs on the other side of the comb - one egg per cell this time. Nuc is running low on stores so bunged some invert syrup on till I can get in there and have a proper look.
Fingers crossed for a good outcome.....

Also PH, the bees had access to the queen through the wire mesh in order to feed her - she had a covered area at each end to hide in. By the time I released her about 15-20 baby bees had emerged from their cells inside the cage with her.