queen rearing

[marcros]

Right...

I want to ear some queens from an apiary that I only have one hive at.

Would the following work (please bare with me):

From this strong colony, I take the queen, any open brood bar one frame covering bees and place in a nucleus box, along with stores and pollen. This will leave only sealed brood on the original site, some stores, covering bees and the flying bees. I do this tomorrow evening, before going to Stoneleigh Friday and Saturday. The single frame of open brood is to give them some hope when they realise that they are queenless- Thursday to Sunday is longer than i would ideally leave it.

On Sunday, I come along, graft a few larva from the new nuc, destroy any cells created on the open brood in the original hive, and insert my grafts. The rape should be flowing, but I can feed if necessary. In theory, the only open brood available to this hive is now my grafts.

Now is where I get slightly lost in my plan. From the queenless starter, I understand that ideally I need a queenright finisher. After the cells start to be drawn (so Monday/Tuesday), I unite the nucleus with the original hive, but expand to a double brood arrangement. In the bottom goes the queen, and most brood, then a queen excluder, and in the top brood box the grafts, a frame either side of young larvae and stores, pollen etc.

When the grafts are sealed (8 days, so a week on Monday), I can prepare Apideas and transfer the ripe cells to those for mating, before preparing proper nucs at the end of the OSR, to which (hopefully) a laying queen can be added.

Thanks
Mark

 

[Heather]

Hi Mark, (hope to see you at Stoneleigh- and we will keep our clothes on, I hope). I am doing the queen rearing course there
I digress,
I am doing queen rearing from another direction and hopefully it is less disruptive to the hive as the queen remains in place.
I have to say I am having to redo as my first attempt has failed, PH said i didnt have enough bees. I only had 2 frames full in a 5 frame Nuc

I have dumped a load of nurse bees into a Nuc, and left them for 3 days. Then I have grafted grubs into wax cups that I had prepared earlier (never did this on Blue Peter). This I added to the Nuc. They have extended the cups beautifully, but failed to feed- hence restarting with lots more bees.

I am just going to transfer each ripe queen cell to separate Apideas.

Am sure more experienced keepers will reply - just putting a simpler idea across as yours sounded so complicated

 

[Finman]

.

When you have one hive, there is no idea to rear queen with it.

It is better to bye a good queen and make a nuc.

You will never find out what is a good queen or good bees if you do not bye them.

When you make a nuc, it takes over 3 weeks that the queen start to lay. And it takes 3 weeks more that first bees emerge. = 1,5 month.
During that time byed queen lay and you have 3 times bigger nuc in situation when new queen start to lay and you get a good hive for winter.

 

[Finman]

. The rape should be flowing, but I can feed if necessary.

When you have a strong colony and you have rape, don't disturb a good hive. Let it work and grow and draw new foundations.

That queen rearing and nuc making only spoils your hive.

The most stupid thing in beekeeping is that beginners start to split and make another stupid things when the hive should grow. And then other stupids encourage to do so.

Admin says that let them do, but it is really stupid.

Did I say enough?

 

[BKF Admin]

Did you say enough ? you said to much !


now which one is the ban member button

I am like Heather in trying to increase hives when we should be expanding what we already have.
Finman I except that you have forgotten more than I will ever learn

 

[Finman]

I am like Heather in trying to increase hives when we should be expanding what we already have.:

Same with me. I do not bye hives or nucs but I bye new queens. But only 2-3 queen per year and then I raise 30-40 new queens from them.

Illusion that I have good bee stock is dangerous.

Here is my good hive before main yield. I have splitted it for moving to rape & fireweed pastures that I can lift them to carry.

To add hives they are better to split after main yield. This hive could give 5 good hives for winter.

Behind is a mating nuc
.

 

[Heather]

I am just trying to increase my bee keeping experience and knowledge, and help others locally who have poor or aggressive queens. It is at their request that I try to rear new queens

My BIG colony is a delight, hardworking ,(on its 2nd super already- very prolific queen and never mind when I go into the hive- they just carry on working, do not attack and within 5 minutes of me leaving them - there is no sign of anxiety or gathering at the front. Just the sort to rear from.

 

[marcros]

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[marcros]

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Sorry, I perhaps didn't explain everything. I have several hives, but only one in the apiary which I want to breed from. I agree with finman that you cannot appraise a queen if you only have 1, and that complacency will lead to poorer bees.

 

[Finman]

.
Yes, that is good paper.

However, I do not mind make any more starter coloniies or cell builders.

I use those hives which are going to swarm. To me queen rearing is interesting job but I want not play with too much with them.

Swarm colony is a 100% raiser. I move new larvae in swarm cells and it goes absolutely fine. Then I make mating nucs from same hive and give a frame with bees and a queen cell into nuc. Then I transport nucs to another bee yard 3 km away. - Again no losses in nuc making.

There are every year swarming hives. Some hives try to supercede the queen in the middle of summer and I may make a same trick.

Main flow is a good time to rear queens. Hives need not laying queen during that time.

.

 

[BKF Admin]

Finman do you always remove the queen from the hive you are taking from ?

 

[Finman]

Finman do you always remove the queen from the hive you are taking from ?

What do you mean?

 

[BKF Admin]

.I make mating nucs from same hive and give a frame with bees and a queen cell into nuc.

.

Sorry Finman I misread your post

 

[Heather]

Finman - In the Nuc with the capped cell - how many days before you can see if a laying queen? - I think 14, but not sure if any checks needed before then -Dont want to disturb her at a vital time.

And Finman- I have 5 hives but only really using bees from 2 to gain new Nucs, so other 3 going well, and the 2 I have taken from were 11 frames bees so they can cope (re your post before about not interfering with good hive).
Heather

 

[Eyeman]

Finman said:

Then I make mating nucs from same hive and give a frame with bees and a queen cell into nuc. Then I transport nucs to another bee yard 3 km away. - Again no losses in nuc making.

Finman when you make up your mating nucleus can you use a frame of stores with bees and a queen cell? Or do you have to use a frame of brood and bees?
I've split one of my colonies into mating nucs and 2 frames only had honey & pollen + bees.

 

[anwe]

I have kept bees for 15 years or more no swarms (I mark my Queens) a good Queen will last 4 years then the bees will superceed her sometime she becomes a drone layer and the colony would be doomed without intervention.The bees sometimes try to raise a Queen on a drone cell. I have tried splitting the brood of older Queens to instigate queen production but they are very reluctant slow and sometimes need to have cells grafted after all the brood is sealed. possibly the Queen phermone has depleted so reducing the effect of her removal. colonys headed by younger Queens seem more willing.To maintain stocks one must be proactive. I keep bees in a unique scotish environment bee type Amm.

 

[Poly Hive]

Where abouts in Scotland Anwe? And that all sounds about right with AMM.

PH

 

[anwe]

Where abouts in Scotland Anwe? And that all sounds about right with AMM.

PH

North we know each other Knickname should be clue enough.

 

[hedgerow pete]

just to answer the first question of bee breading and before anwe and poly hive get a room the answer is dont bother buy a new queen or two and then when you have three or more hives then try queen rearing next year, but dont expect great results from the beginings

 

[Finman]

Finman when you make up your mating nucleus can you use a frame of stores with bees and a queen cell? Or do you have to use a frame of brood and bees?
.

It depends how much the unit has bees and are they able to keep the queen cell tempreratute.

I use frame on stores but it must be a piece of brood with it. Otherwise bees became nervous and to next nuc where are brood.