Queen cells...is it just me?

[Courty]

Hi,
I have a hive on double brood, I inspected it yesterday and found what I thought were queen cells just started. One was in a hole in a top brood frame, one on the bottom of the top frame, both had the classic peanut texture on the outside, nothing in them. I also noticed a few untextured ones on the bottom of the frame, pointing downwards, however they didn’t look much different to drone cells on the bottom, just that the hole was underneath. One was charged.
Do bees make drone comb that points down sometimes, or are they definitely the beginning of queen cells?
I took them down anyway to give me some time and to see what they continue to do before I address it more positively.
The drone cells seem to point in all directions. Are they similar to queen cells and the start?
Thanks
Courty

 

[enrico]

A bit confused when you say charged. If it was a white fluid then they are queen cells. If not then drone cells. I take it you know what queen cups are.
E

 

[B+.]

Do bees make drone comb that points down sometimes, or are they definitely the beginning of queen cells?

Yes. They are definitely queen cells. Worker and drone cells point sideways - not down. Only queen cells point down.
If they have an egg in that queen cell, they're preparing to make a number of new queens. What happens next is up to you.
By tearing them down, you've bought yourself a couple of days while they select new larvae and build them back up again .....assuming they can select new larvae(?). Do they have eggs/larvae?
How sure are you that you destroyed EVERY cell? If you missed just one, you haven't affected their plans at all!

 

[Courty]

I’ve seen the acorn type queen cells before last year and the more developed ones, it was just that when I looked at the bottom of the frames, some of the drone cells are quite wild and point in various directions, some downwards and not as big as the acorn style queen cups. I know that drone cells should be horizontal, but brace comb and comb off the edges of frames are often pointing in other directions.
One cell had what looked like jelly in it, I couldn’t see a larva.
The queen is laying well and over plenty of frames.
Courty

 

[ShinySideUp]

Drone cells can point downwards usually if they are in a cluster at the bottom of a frame when they can look like the smoke discharge tubes on tanks; pointing in all directions. It is possible, or IMHO likely, that they are play cups. If I find some I tend to tear them down as somewhere in my head I feel if I leave them they will get the idea to make real QC's (nonsense I know but hey ho). However drone cells, play cups and queens cells do not look at all like each other in my experience.

 

[moorparkbees]

I’ve just done an artificial swam on a hive I’ve got, lots of swam cells over the last few inspections.

 

[enrico]

Some MAY be drone cells but it sounds to me like some ARE queen cells. The one with jelly in is a good example. You now need to make some decisions on how you are going to deal with them. An artificial swarm and reduce queen cells left to one or two is likely to be the way. Have you read the Welsh sheets on swarm control.can someone else please give Courty a link?
E

 

[jeff33]

Enrico, I assume you are talking about Wally Shaw guide document. Courty, here it is, some good info on there.
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf

 

[enrico]

Enrico, I assume you are talking about Wally Shaw guide document. Courty, here it is, some good info on there.
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf

Thanks
E

 

[Courty]

Thanks for the link, I’d actually been reading it over the last week so that I would be prepared, I’m looking at a Demaree with having a double brood. If they are insistent, I’ll look at the other options. It’s a 2018 queen so even though she looks to be laying really well, the bees may know something I don’t.

Looks like being an interesting year, I’m sure I will learn a lot.

Thanks

Courty

 

[jeff33]

Courty, if they have already made QCs the demaree is of no use whatsoever and they will still swarm. It is a pre-emptive manipulation, not reactive.
You need to separate the brood from the queen and flyers so a standard split is your best option.... That's of course if they are QCs.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I’m looking at a Demaree

Bit late for that if you have QC's, and if you already have two boxes full of brood, it's going to be a bit cumbersome with another box for the queen and frames of foundation.

 

[Erichalfbee]

A Demaree is a manipulation for a single brood box.

 

[Courty]

I completed the first step of the Demaree today. A few play cups but nothing charged. I managed to find enough combs that were mainly empty or partially filled with nectar and pollen to put with the queen at the bottom, making sure there were no queen cells anywhere.
Queen excluded, two supers, a board with a central hole with a QX piece over it and an optional gate/entrance that is closed for now.
All brood at the top.

I appreciate the pointers that Demaree in its original form is swarm prevention, however it seems to be a way of swarm control. I read The Apiarist bog entry on Demaree and that version refers to queen cells and removing them at the first stage.

I will see how it goes, I’m tempted to make a nuc if they make a decent queen cell in the top box.

Courty

 

[Macdee]

Hi

I have just done a Demaree on two hives because I found queen cells and wanted to keep the colonies strong for the current flow and OSR that is now in flower.

Will check in a week for QCs in the top brood box.

Hope yours goes well too.

Cheers
Al

 

[Courty]

Thanks Al,
I hope it goes well for us.
Would a week be too long? I feel I should catch the top box queen cells before they are capped, which could be in three or four days. I don’t know if they would swarm with the original queen once a cell is capped in the top box?

Courty

 

[Wingy]

Just done similar using a Snelgrove board, very strong colony that I want to keep that way as they are on the OSR.

 

[Courty]

Update

So, after the first stage of Demaree on Sunday I went back into the hive today, Thursday. Bottom brood box has the queen laying loads of eggs on the combs, a few empty queen cups.
Top brood box had a sealed queen cell in the middle of a comb which I took down, three more charged queen cells also taken down and two next to each other at the side of a comb that I put in a nuc with stores and mainly capped brood.
I now see the clear difference between a charged queen cell and the numerous cups or possible cups that face down among drone cells but have a smaller aperture. I still took no chances and squashed anything that pointed downwards.
The two supers inbetween are slowly drawing out in the centre, my area is not the best for big nectar crops.
I also turned my queen excluders so the gaps were 90 degrees to the frames having read up on that.
All good so far.

Courty

 

[Erichalfbee]

Started a a Demaree today.

 

[Courty]

Hope it goes well for you Dani. I’m finding it an interesting method, it’s rather nail biting as a relatively new beekeeper.

Courty