Queen cells destroyed in finisher

[Parsonage Bees]

In my experience I think it is best to wait until the cells are within two days of emerging before splitting the cell builder into nuclei or introducing them to nuclei of any description.

Thanks. I'll have another try.

Noone has suggested using cell protectors. Are these used?

 

[Parsonage Bees]

You do have to be very careful with them and keep them warm but, so long as you do this, you can transfer them to an incubator as soon as they're sealed

I'm looking at making a warming cabinet which I understand could be used for an incubator. I'm going to need a bigger shed.

 

[masterBK]

Cell protectors are indeed used and "air roller" protectors are provided with Cupkit, Jenter etc. Many simply wrap mature Q cells with kitchen foil or with insulation tape (leaving the tips of the cells exposed) to stop the bees attacking the sides of the cells. The queens inside will still die if the bees neglect the cells and not keep them warm within the cluster (I found this happens if I introduce recently capped cells to Apidea so now only intro mature cells )

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Thanks, the brambles are starting to flower here and the lime trees aren't far off. There should be a good flow of nectar this time. . . .. Ben

 

[B+.]

I'm looking at making a warming cabinet which I understand could be used for an incubator. I'm going to need a bigger shed.

I have my incubator set at 35C 50% humidity (50-70% is fine and some drop the incubator temperature to 34.5). A little either way isn't too critical
An incubator is basically just a warming cabinet so it should be ok. The humidity may damage it after a while though depending on what it's made from

 

[Hebeegeebee]

If you only need a few queens, then just leave the queencells in the hive they started in until you distribute them to nucs or mini-nucs or whatever. Simples.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

If you only need a few queens, then just leave the queencells in the hive they started in until you distribute them to nucs or mini-nucs or whatever. Simples.

Yep, that's what I'm intending. If I can find the queen in my big colony I can put her in a nuc and let them build emergency cells starting tomorrow. To set up a cell builder by strengthening a colony with brood and waiting 10-12 days to start grafting I've lost nearly 2 weeks.

Was interesting to try grafting tho'.

 

[eltalia]

Yep, that's what I'm intending. If I can find the queen in my big colony I can put her in a nuc and let them build emergency cells starting tomorrow.

Have to have good reason to go that road, I reckon.
Select a few frames two at least with stores and one with first generation
comb holding eggs. Move those to a nuc.
Select up to a half dozen cells with eggs and break out the lower side
down to the foundation/base. Do this in a few places each side of the frame.
Place that frame at the outer position.
Bees will begin on feeding RJ within hours, QC build begun by next day.
Depending on your agenda the capped cells can be removed and placed
on a topbar with hair roller cages over - remove the roller cover, making a cage.
0r.
Simply select those same fames, eggs to the outside, and leave them tuit.

To set up a cell builder by strengthening a colony with brood and waiting 10-12 days to start grafting I've lost nearly 2 weeks.
Was interesting to try grafting tho'.

Experience has taught these processes developed for or by dedicated beeeders
leave a lot of the micromanagement out of descriptions, maybe assuming such
is "common sense" and so not requiring addressing.... buuut for the b'ydr and
c'mrcl b'keep alike the KISS principle applies - write a cheque, too easy.

Bill

 

[Parsonage Bees]

. . .. . .
Select up to a half dozen cells with eggs and break out the lower side
down to the foundation/base. Do this in a few places each side of the frame.
Place that frame at the outer position.

I've seen this technique tried by a local beek who posts YouTube vids. He wasn't very successful. Might give it a try.
Why put the frame for the QCs on the outside? I'd logically put them safe and warm in the middle of the nest?

Yes, I'm thinking that for a hobbyist a 10 frame cell builder is a bit excessive. I'm thinking a queenless 5 frame nuc would be enough for a dozen or so cells.

The 2 remaining QCs from last grafting run have emerged. See photo.

 

[eltalia]

I've seen this technique tried by a local beek who posts YouTube vids. He wasn't very successful. Might give it a try.

Yes... all the other parameters still apply, strong colony/packed out stores/flying weather
up until capping. Also I've seen hive tools used to break down walls...you need a scalpel
or new boxcutter, and only on first generation brood cells as the eggs cannot be disturbed
and for older comb the walls often collapse.
You do a few sites as no telling just where bees will follow the airpath in
selecting which to grow out and which to tear down and rebuild worker cells.

Why put the frame for the QCs on the outside? I'd logically put them safe and warm in the middle of the nest?

See above re numbers... it is a nuc - we use 6frm FD configs - so nowhere
internally should be "cold". The outside gives you that extra space in position to open
up the gap to the next frame.

Yes, I'm thinking that for a hobbyist a 10 frame cell builder is a bit excessive. I'm thinking a queenless 5 frame nuc would be enough for a dozen or so cells.

/nods/
Used 3frm built nucs for years. The 6frm'r is just more versatile in using for other jobs
around the place.

The 2 remaining QCs from last grafting run have emerged. See photo.

Yep, nice peanuts... a half dozen of those is plenty around a b'yrd setup.
Allow (build) for 20 and expect 6 is usually the case.
Pros will differ buuut this stuff is their game, it is a Specialist arena for beekeeping.

Bill

 

[Anduril]

I've seen this technique tried by a local beek who posts YouTube vids. He wasn't very successful. Might give it a try.
Why put the frame for the QCs on the outside? I'd logically put them safe and warm in the middle of the nest?

Yes, I'm thinking that for a hobbyist a 10 frame cell builder is a bit excessive. I'm thinking a queenless 5 frame nuc would be enough for a dozen or so cells.

The 2 remaining QCs from last grafting run have emerged. See photo.

I assume the technique is OTS on the spot queen rearing, for emergency queen rearing David Tarpy has lectured that the bees thin the queen cells down themselves dependant on age of larvae. Wally Shaw has shown that in a number of instances the bees will break down the cells walls themselves to produce straight cells. For our climate it IS logical to place them in the middle of the bees nest. A small change in outside temperature and you have lost your cells unless you are using poly. Refer to derekM and his paper. Have you watched any of Richard Noels videos all info gleaned from Michael Palmer.

 

[eltalia]

I assume the technique is OTS on the spot queen rearing,
[...]

An american 'invention' based on a very old well practised procedure, at
least here locally (QLD.au). First demonstrated by one Norman V Rice
during an onfarm field day (circa 1976), Norm is legendary in Aussie
queen breeding circles. RIP.

Note; "name dropping" is not going to produce queens.

For our climate it IS logical to place them in the middle of the bees nest. A small change in outside temperature and you have lost your cells unless you are using poly. Refer to derekM and his paper. Have you watched any of Richard Noels videos all info gleaned from Michael Palmer.

Logical to whom..?.. those grappling with the concept yet never to try it?
0r those so well experienced pragmaticly splitting colonys to low numbers
in the urge to build new colonys on the back of a warped ideology?
Any reputable breeder will tell you queen production requires boxes packed
with bees, that means bees flowing over the sides on the lid being removed.
So you could raise queens in a packing crate _anywhere_ bees thrive as
ferals, simply relying on respiratory heat.

The location of the initiation frame I gave is a tip, a free clue.
Anyone choosing to use the method can use either position to see for
themselves.
This is simply not worth the arguement, particularly among beginners
- unless one is determined to suppress reliable information they just cannot
grapple with in their limited experience and/or fixed in stone ideology.

Bill

 

[Anduril]

An american 'invention' based on a very old well practised procedure, at
least here locally (QLD.au). First demonstrated by one Norman V Rice
during an onfarm field day (circa 1976), Norm is legendary in Aussie
queen breeding circles. RIP.

Note; "name dropping" is not going to produce queens.


Logical to whom..?.. those grappling with the concept yet never to try it?
0r those so well experienced pragmaticly splitting colonys to low numbers
in the urge to build new colonys on the back of a warped ideology?
Any reputable breeder will tell you queen production requires boxes packed
with bees, that means bees flowing over the sides on the lid being removed.
So you could raise queens in a packing crate _anywhere_ bees thrive as
ferals, simply relying on respiratory heat.

The location of the initiation frame I gave is a tip, a free clue.
Anyone choosing to use the method can use either position to see for
themselves.
This is simply not worth the arguement, particularly among beginners
- unless one is determined to suppress reliable information they just cannot
grapple with in their limited experience and/or fixed in stone ideology.

Bill

Thank you for quoting my post and reinforcing what I had written. Much obliged.

 

[eltalia]

Thank you for quoting my post and reinforcing what I had written. Much obliged.

No worries...
Pretty sure there exist those here who are capable of sorting Reference
from Reinforcement regardless of a fragile attempt at Verballing my work.
/eyeball/

Bill