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Louisw

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Hi everyone,

I've just joined up this forum as I'm currently doing product design in the second year of sixth form and have been given freedom of choice in regards to my project, however it has to solve/ aid a problem.
I'm looking at creating a user friendly bee-hive that anyone can use in their garden at home as I've recently seen in the news various articles about the decreasing population of bee's in the UK.

I am wondering whether you would be able to tell me some common problems which you encounter when bee-keeping and anything that would be very useful in a beehive?

I have to avoid from making it look like the typical beehive but it must be functional. I have to draw inspiration from a "design movement" e.g Memphis, modernism etc, and need it to consist of enough practical skills/ development in order to get me a good enough grade.

I understand the basic concept and know about the different levels on a beehive but by no means am I 100% clued up which is why I came here to ask you guys some questions.

I hope you are able to help, any feedback is greatly appreciated whether it be down to materials to use or special features.

Thanks very much and hope you're able to get back to me, :thanks:

Regards,
Louis.
 
I think there current range of hiving options are pretty comprehensive, there are only so many ways you can make what is pretty much a box.

An observation hive you could use all year round would be nice, but I think it would also be tricky.
 
A guy by the name of Eddie Gough designed an observation hive for year long use . It involved double glazing , I made one , used it and then passed it on to a lady who now resides in the south of France !
VM
 
Hi everyone,

I've just joined up this forum as I'm currently doing product design in the second year of sixth form and have been given freedom of choice in regards to my project, however it has to solve/ aid a problem.
I'm looking at creating a user friendly bee-hive that anyone can use in their garden at home as I've recently seen in the news various articles about the decreasing population of bee's in the UK.

I am wondering whether you would be able to tell me some common problems which you encounter when bee-keeping and anything that would be very useful in a beehive?

I have to avoid from making it look like the typical beehive but it must be functional. I have to draw inspiration from a "design movement" e.g Memphis, modernism etc, and need it to consist of enough practical skills/ development in order to get me a good enough grade.

I understand the basic concept and know about the different levels on a beehive but by no means am I 100% clued up which is why I came here to ask you guys some questions.

I hope you are able to help, any feedback is greatly appreciated whether it be down to materials to use or special features.

Thanks very much and hope you're able to get back to me, :thanks:

Regards,
Louis.

You are not the first to seek design inspiration on here .. there are so many variables that it would be difficult for anyone to point you in the right direction.

You might find that as search on here (using the search function) might lead you towards some ideas ... if you tried 'design' in the search box it may throw up a few threads that are worth a look.

Have a look here to see what sort of thing can be achieved:

http://www.develop3d.com/blog/2012/07/student-tackles-beehive-design-with-a-unique-concept

You might also find that if you have some initial ideas or concepts that you can post then people on here might be more able to offer some comments on them that may assist.

Good luck with your project .... I spent two years designing my hive and it's still got some things I would change !!
 
Hi Louis,

I agree with domino about there being enough hive types already, but if you want to do a design project for college then good luck. In my opinion the way a hive looks is far less important that other factors.

It might be more useful to look at a particular problem and try different ways to hopefully solve it i.e. some add-on or modification rather than design a whole new bee hive. I'm sure by looking through this forum you will find plenty of problems that beekeepers need solving! Wasps can be a problem at this time of year, for example.

If you are going to do anything inside a hive you need to read about bee space.

Another approach is to look at bumble bee boxes rather than honey bees, or something to encourage beneficial insects (to a garden) like ladybirds.

I think it is a tough assignment and it is good to do some research before deciding if this is the right project for you.
 
I would like someone to design a pollen collector that can be on the hive even in wet weather so I can leave it on weeks at a time. As its impossible to go up and get the collected pollen on a daily basis for me.
 
I'm looking at creating a user friendly bee-hive that anyone can use in their garden at home
It might depend whether the 'user' is the bees or the beekeepers.

Some use vertical hives, others use horizontal hives which work even though European bees tend to prefer to build vertically.

Maybe you could look at the issues around inspecting a vertical hive during the summer, when supers contain a lot of heavy honey. Colonies do need to be inspected to assess the condition of the colony, although some people don't do it very often.

You could look up some of the different hive designs, including Langstroth, Dadant, Warre, Rose, National etc.

As well as reading this forum (pages on hives >> http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=5 )you could try Beebase https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?sectionid=70 and Dave Cushman's site http://www.dave-cushman.net/

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.
 
The hive in avatar picture is an example of functionalism. The insulation it's prime characteristic is evident... It can also be viewed as the spaceship to convey the colony to the new world of spring beyond the winter
 
If you are going to do anything inside a hive you need to read about bee space.

Nothing could be further from the truth. 'Bee-space' is only relevant when conventional frames are to be used within a beehive design, and it is such frames which are thought by many to be responsible for numerous bee diseases.

BeeJoyful: It might depend whether the 'user' is the bees or the beekeepers.

Indeed - and it seems that there is always a balance to be struck in any hive design: those which are beekeeper-friendly not being bee-friendly, and vice-versa.


Perhaps the most bee-friendly hive ever designed was the Quinby 'New' hive - and my guess is that few people here will have heard of it - with the reason for it's lack of success and subsequent descent into oblivion being that it was bl##dy awkward to work with.

For anyone who is wondering what made this hive so bee-friendly - imagine a cuboid wooden box, something like 15" in height, width, and depth - and put this box through an imaginary bacon-slicer, with it's blade set at 1.5". What will result is a series of frames with fully parallel sides, and two closed end frames. With starter strips affixed to each frame, combs will then be drawn inside each frame - with not a single 'bee-space' design consideration being made (the bees figure that out for themselves).

To make these frames into a hive - they are simply butted up hard against each other (by courtesy of straps), so that the original cuboid box is re-constituted. Put a weatherproof roof on top, a floor under, and that then becomes your hive.

With regard to the beespaces of the Langstroth 'hanging frame', variations of which went on to become universally adopted, Dzierzon commented, "These passages are unnatural, and they carry off the necessary heat and moisture from the brood-nest and winter quarters of the bees, so that colonies generally winter rather badly."

Abbott, editor of the British Bee Journal said "There is nothing more unnatural in hive arrangement than the absurd practice of making or leaving spaces round the frame ends."

Indeed, there were many famous names who acknowledged the bee-friendly superiority of the Quinby 'New' hive over the Langstroth: "Let those who consider the hanging frame hive the only fit domicile for the honey bee recall this list of names: Quinby, Dzierzon, Abbott, Hetherington, Dadant, and then acquaint themselves with the merits of this new hive before condemning it."

[All quotes from The American Apiculturist. Vol. III, 1885.]

I don't know if there's anything in the above for the OP, but I often find there are some interesting ideas in the very early books on beekeeping. Dzierzon's Rational Beekeeping is one such gem, which was effectively censored by Samuel Wagner - who had translated the book from German into English, but then having discovered Langstroth, refused to publish it, as Dzierzon - in contrast to Langstroth - was very 'anti removable-frame'.
It was to be another 20 years before Dzierzon's book was again translated - by which time Langstroth's framed design had become firmly established.

LJ
 
Hi LJ

Interesting stuff - thanks :)

As I said, they need to read about bee space...and make up their own mind.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
I would like someone to design a pollen collector that can be on the hive even in wet weather so I can leave it on weeks at a time. As its impossible to go up and get the collected pollen on a daily basis for me.

I have 2, they replace the floor and have a removable drawer that has a fine mesh in it to keep the pollen from going mouldy, I will try and take some pics
 
Nothing could be further from the truth. 'Bee-space' is only relevant when conventional frames are to be used within a beehive design, and it is such frames which are thought by many to be responsible for numerous bee diseases.



Indeed - and it seems that there is always a balance to be struck in any hive design: those which are beekeeper-friendly not being bee-friendly, and vice-versa.


Perhaps the most bee-friendly hive ever designed was the Quinby 'New' hive - and my guess is that few people here will have heard of it - with the reason for it's lack of success and subsequent descent into oblivion being that it was bl##dy awkward to work with.

For anyone who is wondering what made this hive so bee-friendly - imagine a cuboid wooden box, something like 15" in height, width, and depth - and put this box through an imaginary bacon-slicer, with it's blade set at 1.5". What will result is a series of frames with fully parallel sides, and two closed end frames. With starter strips affixed to each frame, combs will then be drawn inside each frame - with not a single 'bee-space' design consideration being made (the bees figure that out for themselves).

To make these frames into a hive - they are simply butted up hard against each other (by courtesy of straps), so that the original cuboid box is re-constituted. Put a weatherproof roof on top, a floor under, and that then becomes your hive.

With regard to the beespaces of the Langstroth 'hanging frame', variations of which went on to become universally adopted, Dzierzon commented, "These passages are unnatural, and they carry off the necessary heat and moisture from the brood-nest and winter quarters of the bees, so that colonies generally winter rather badly."

Abbott, editor of the British Bee Journal said "There is nothing more unnatural in hive arrangement than the absurd practice of making or leaving spaces round the frame ends."

Indeed, there were many famous names who acknowledged the bee-friendly superiority of the Quinby 'New' hive over the Langstroth: "Let those who consider the hanging frame hive the only fit domicile for the honey bee recall this list of names: Quinby, Dzierzon, Abbott, Hetherington, Dadant, and then acquaint themselves with the merits of this new hive before condemning it."

[All quotes from The American Apiculturist. Vol. III, 1885.]

I don't know if there's anything in the above for the OP, but I often find there are some interesting ideas in the very early books on beekeeping. Dzierzon's Rational Beekeeping is one such gem, which was effectively censored by Samuel Wagner - who had translated the book from German into English, but then having discovered Langstroth, refused to publish it, as Dzierzon - in contrast to Langstroth - was very 'anti removable-frame'.
It was to be another 20 years before Dzierzon's book was again translated - by which time Langstroth's framed design had become firmly established.

LJ

Moses Quinby was a contemporary of Langstroth and his 'closed end framed hive' probably lost out as Langstroth's hive required less accurate machining but there were people who thought that Quinby's hive was superior in many respects. Quinby's hive, as you state, must have been pretty difficult to work and the frames probably got propolised together to the point where you would need a hammer and chisel to do an inspection !!

There's a good contemporary text available free on the internet which explores a number of hive designs which may provid the OP with some inspiration - there can be few hive shapes, sizes and designs that have not been tried at some point in the past.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...BQ#v=onepage&q=quinby closed end hive&f=false

Page 10 for those that can't find the Quinby Hive section.
 
Many feel that insulation is an important point, one reason why polystyrene is becoming a widely-used material. I see DerekM has posted above- if you click on his avatar you can view posts by him that will lead you to some relevant discussions, also look at Pargyles thread about designing his own hive.

.
 
Wow guys, thanks very much for all of your replies! Things I'm having problems with is trying to design a totally new styled beehive following a design movement that isn't a "box" which I've been told is a no-no by my teacher. We had freedom to choose whatever we wanted so I thought, to be different I would like the challenge of a beehive which is proving to be a real challenge with it being far more complex than I first thought! :sos:

The beehive I am hoping to create will be hopefully both bee friendly but also providing a decent amount of honey for the keeper.

What I was more interested in from you guys was opinions on good features for a beehive and ideas on how I could input them e.g mesh sizes, removable drawers (like someone mentioned in the thread as a pollen collector) etc. I will be able to think of actual design styles my self as I have pictures to draw inspiration from of design movements. My knowledge of problems you guys would face is very little as I am not a beekeeper so don't know what you come across which is why I need your help! I've read the links you posted and they've helped a lot in me understanding it further.

What I'm thinking of at the moment is:

Materials - Scots Pine, Spruce (but to stay away from composite boards like plywood etc in fear of harming the bees). I am also going to stay away from plastics as after speaking to a beekeeper he stated it would need to be sterilised which is usually done with a open flame. However, what do you guys use to avoid the wood getting singed during sterilisation?

Features I've been thinking about -
A drawer with a mesh to trap potentially harmful bugs from giving the bees a disease.
A Pollen collector? (I'm unsure how i'd implement this so ideas are appreciated!)
Extendable in order to allow more supers to be placed on the hive if a good summer.
Insulation in order to keep the bees nice and cosy
An inspection screen that allows you to look into the super/ brood in order to check the condition of the honey/queen.
A possible automatic smoker that subdues the bees (would this be worthwhile?)

Do you have any others you think would be useful or opinions on the ones above?

I also have to design my product for a "client" so I'm thinking of contacting some garden centres that may be interested however I will also ask some local beekeeping societies if they're willing to help.

I will post my design ideas up on the forum when I get to putting them properly onto paper.

Sorry for all the questions but it's really helpful to me!

Cheers,

Louis
 
Wow guys, thanks very much for all of your replies! Things I'm having problems with is trying to design a totally new styled beehive following a design movement that isn't a "box" which I've been told is a no-no by my teacher.

Sadly, whatever you design is likely to end up as a 'box' ... what sort and shape of box you can use your imagination but as bees live in hollowed out trees in the wild you need to be thinking of something that will create a cavity of at least 40 litres.


We had freedom to choose whatever we wanted so I thought, to be different I would like the challenge http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/clear.gifof a beehive which is proving to be a real challenge with it being far more complex than I first thought! :sos:

Brave or foolhardy ! Take your pick ...

The beehive I am hoping to create will be hopefully both bee friendly but also providing a decent amount of honey for the keeper.


What I was more interested in from you guys was opinions on good features for a beehive and ideas on how I could input them e.g mesh sizes, removable drawers (like someone mentioned in the thread as a pollen collector) etc. I will be able to think of actual design styles my self as I have pictures to draw inspiration from of design movements. My knowledge of problems you guys would face is very little as I am not a beekeeper so don't know what you come across which is why I need your help! I've read the links you posted and they've helped a lot in me understanding it further.

What I'm thinking of at the moment is:

Materials - Scots Pine, Spruce (but to stay away from composite boards like plywood etc in fear of harming the bees). I am also going to stay away from plastics as after speaking to a beekeeper he stated it would need to be sterilised which is usually done with a open flame. However, what do you guys use to avoid the wood getting singed during sterilisation?

Think high insulation value materials ... polystyrene, Kingspan/Celotex, bees don't mind plastic ... some beekeepers don't like it. Scots pine and spruce are softwoods ... cedar is the traditional material that hives are made from ... but then curves and complex shapes go out of the window with timber ! Perhaps a moulded composite timber hive (look at OSB/Sterling board - made in sheets but perhaps theres a way of combining wood flakes with resin and polyurethane chips to give you a high insulation factor 'shaped' hive).


Features I've been thinking about -
A drawer with a mesh to trap potentially harmful bugs from giving the bees a disease.

Bugs that affect bees are small enough to go through any bee sized mesh.

A Pollen collector? (I'm unsure how i'd implement this so ideas are
appreciated!)

A very specialist piece of ancillary equipment ... only of use if you want to collect pollen from incoming bees to feed it back to them later or sell it for use elsewhere.


Extendable in order to allow more supers to be placed on the hive if a good summer.

Yes ... most hives would benefit from the ease of extending them ... boxes that sit on top of the brood box are best as bees like to move upwards with honey stores. BUT .. you might like to look at 'long hives' which have some benefits for the user ... Look up Dartington Hive or Beehaus.


Insulation in order to keep the bees nice and cosy

Yes

An inspection screen that allows you to look into the super/ brood in order to check the condition of the honey/queen.

Yes ...bees like the dark for inside their hive so you can't just have a window into the hive.



A possible automatic smoker that subdues the bees (would this be worthwhile?)

Ancillary equipment ... can't see any reason to either incorporate it into the hive or have it operate automatically.

Do you have any others you think would be useful or opinions on the ones above?

Perhaps you should look at designining a hive for a particular purpose or to assist (for instance) a beekeeper that cannot lift, is disabled or challenged in some way ?

I also have to design my product for a "client" so I'm thinking of contacting some garden centres that may be interested however I will also ask some local beekeeping societies if they're willing to help.

I will post my design ideas up on the forum when I get to putting them properly onto paper.

Sorry for all the questions but it's really helpful to me!

Cheers,

Louis

Good luck, it's a rough road when you have some idea of what is required in keeping bees, you've got a steep learning curve ... come on back if you have more ideas.
 
... I am also going to stay away from plastics as after speaking to a beekeeper he stated it would need to be sterilised which is usually done with a open flame. ...

You need to speak to more (and more thoughtful) beekeepers.

Plastics (foamed/expanded for insulation and toughness) are becoming more mainstream now in the UK (having been mainstream in Europe for years.

The National Bee Unit (ultimately a government department under DEFRA) publish guidelines for sterilising plastic hives. Dilute bleach does the job.
 
... Things I'm having problems with is trying to design a totally new styled beehive following a design movement that isn't a "box" which I've been told is a no-no by my teacher. ...

Louis, the problem is that your teacher seems not to know about bees, beekeepers and beekeeping.

Probably 95% of beekeepers are going to react against anything that is in any way "styled".
And most of the other 5% want something that looks "traditional" ...

The box is functional.
Anything that compromises function (in any of its aspects) is a drawback that "style" will not compensate for.
Beekeepers are practical, and for the most part small-c conservative. Oh, and penny-pinching.

Three actual existing hives to (look up) study and learn from -
-- the Apimaye Thermo Hive is a recent offering, with a decorated/styled exterior and lots of 'features' (rather like those you listed) involving twiddly moving parts. Its not got great appeal as yet in the UK - he said politely.
-- the WBC is the style classic and picked by most of the 5% wanting a 'traditional-looking' hive. However, you should note that the appearance is provided by the weatherproof cladding - not the (hidden) box that the bees live in - and which actually holds British Standard frames for the wax combs. Its been around for over a hundred years, and has a loyal, but small following even today. As hives go, its expensive. But you might want to explore the 'cladding' idea...
-- however the Langstroth family is the world's most common 'style' - and it has been around over 150 years and is distinguished mainly by its (pretty crude) simplicity.


To a beekeeper, a design must work for the bees.
Lubetkin's London Zoo Penguin Pool is a fabulous Modernist design. Unfortunately, it wasn't very good for penguins.
Accordingly, I think that makes it a rubbish design. Because it didn't work.
Lovely bit of sculpture. Failed on function.

A really stylish chocolate teapot might win 'design' prizes, but would still be scoffed at by those just wanting to drink a nice cup of tea.
 
Things I'm having problems with is trying to design a totally new styled beehive following a design movement that isn't a "box" which I've been told is a no-no by my teacher. We had freedom to choose whatever we wanted so I thought, to be different I would like the challenge of a beehive which is proving to be a real challenge with it being far more complex than I first thought! :sos:
Check out http://beehivejournal. blog spot.fi/2010/01/alpha.html (close gaps for link to work) It has a list of over 300 types of hive, along with drawings and pictures. If nothing else you can use it as a resource to show your teacher that it's difficult to be 'new' and also design something that works.

If a hive is a fashion statement or intended as a piece of garden architecture it may not be good for bees and could be a nightmare for the beekeeper. If it's brightly coloured, and sitting on field margins, it'll get stolen. So boring boxes in neutral colours are what tend to work best - unless you can design something to prove both the above wrong.

The most popular hive worldwide is, I'm fairly sure, the Langstroth. Probably because it's used by almost every beekeeper in USA as well as much of Europe. Many British beekeepers use variations on the National design; Smith hives are popular in Scotland.

To make nomenclature even more complicated - my hives are called Jumbo Langstroth, but use Dadant frames. :willy_nilly:
The beehive I am hoping to create will be hopefully both bee friendly but also providing a decent amount of honey for the keeper.
Then you need plenty of adjustable space - small enough for a colony to overwinter without losing too much heat whilst ensuring there's enough space for overwintering stores. It needs to be able to expand to allow storage of the spring and summer nectar flow. Some European hives are massive boxes, impossible to move, but with internal movable partitions.

Some forum members have have taken huge quantities of Oil Seed Rape (OSR) honey this year. There's a thread about 'tallest' hive.

But some bees are frugal and will only ever collect a small excess - it does get complicated!
What I was more interested in from you guys was opinions on good features for a beehive and ideas on how I could input them e.g mesh sizes
Mesh size needs to be large enough for debris and varroa to fall through, but too small for a bee. Varroa mesh is 8-10 count (8-10 holes per inch) A bee can easily get through a space made by an ordinary drawing pencil.

Materials - Scots Pine, Spruce (but to stay away from composite boards like plywood etc in fear of harming the bees). I am also going to stay away from plastics as after speaking to a beekeeper he stated it would need to be sterilised which is usually done with a open flame. However, what do you guys use to avoid the wood getting singed during sterilisation?
People make hives from plywood and OSB, but they can be heavy. Plastic and Polystyrene hives can be, as itma said, sterilised using bleach. Plastic obviously needs to be UV resistant, poly hives are usually painted - check the gallery e.g. http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?u=4812

A drawer with a mesh to trap potentially harmful bugs from giving the bees a disease.
You could investigate the traps used in USA for Small Hive Beetle (read Beebase forum) or what some European beekeepers use to trap Asian Hornets (see Beebase). Neither pest has arrived in UK yet.
Extendable in order to allow more supers to be placed on the hive if a good summer.
Mentioned above - but will you refer to these boxes as 'supers'? Sometimes referred to as 'shallows' and are used for brood in one size box hives.
Insulation in order to keep the bees nice and cosy
Poly hives? (Check information on http://www.beehivesupplies.co.uk/ - he designed and built his own, which are very good. He is approachable too, I'm sure would help if he can.)

Check Derekm's posts and see what he's doing with hive design
An inspection screen that allows you to look into the super/ brood in order to check the condition of the honey/queen.
Some people, myself included, use an acrylic crown board - that's a top cover that goes beneath the roof. Some Warre and Top Bar beekeepers use an acrylic window in the side of the hive, covered with a thick piece of wood.

Would need to be weather proof and resistant to vermin attack.

Green woodpeckers will drill through almost anything once they realise bees are inside.
A possible automatic smoker that subdues the bees (would this be worthwhile?)
Would need to be weatherproof if on the outside of the hive all year. If internal it could be bulky and would probably end up covered in wax and or propolis. If removable (for maintenance) would it leave an awkward space?

I also have to design my product for a "client" so I'm thinking of contacting some garden centres that may be interested however I will also ask some local beekeeping societies if they're willing to help.
A garden centre might not be the best 'client', businesses are becoming bee-friendly - see Dusty's Manchester thread. Fortnum & Mason's hives are an expensive example.
 
I have 2, they replace the floor and have a removable drawer that has a fine mesh in it to keep the pollen from going mouldy, I will try and take some pics

Yes please beebreeder, could you also measure the hole sizes on the diff meshs so I can make sure I get the right sizes for them.

cheers
doug
 

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