Price of Land?

[Moobee]

We live on an odd plot of land that 100 years ago, owned nearly all the land around it. One of our 6 neighbours’ garden wraps around the back of ours and their fence panels are always falling over in the storms & now we have recently removed an ugly eleagnus hedge, 2 have gone in the last two days and we floated the idea of buying a small piece of their garden (with the crap fence) which would make a nice little apiary. It’s approx 100sqm, cannot be built on due to a covenant and has no other access. It is mostly a few fruit trees and shrubs.
So, my question is, how much should we reasonably offer?

 

[Garry R]

As with everything for sale - what you are prepared to pay for it. Always has been and always will be so. Not a lot of use I suspect but that's what settles the price - not what they want for it.

 

[Moobee]

As with everything for sale - what you are prepared to pay for it. Always has been and always will be so. Not a lot of use I suspect but that's what settles the price - not what they want for it.

That is true but have not a clue as to what a starting point might be!

 

[JamezF]

how much should we reasonably offer?

You could discuss it with an estate agent to see how much owning the extra land would increase the value of your property (or decrease the value of theirs) and consider how much you would value the additional amenity it offers you and the cost to them of actually selling it. That might a reasonable starting point for negotiations?

James

 

[pargyle]

We live on an odd plot of land that 100 years ago, owned nearly all the land around it. One of our 6 neighbours’ garden wraps around the back of ours and their fence panels are always falling over in the storms & now we have recently removed an ugly eleagnus hedge, 2 have gone in the last two days and we floated the idea of buying a small piece of their garden (with the crap fence) which would make a nice little apiary. It’s approx 100sqm, cannot be built on due to a covenant and has no other access. It is mostly a few fruit trees and shrubs.
So, my question is, how much should we reasonably offer?

Make it easy for them ... offer to build a new fence to demark the area, suggest that you might be interested in extending your garden and cultivating it, don't mention the apiary and start off by asking if they would be willing to transfer the area to you if you paid for all the legal fees and the Land Registry changes (you can expect a bill for that of around £1200) plus the cost of the new fencing ... not cheap. I would not start with an offer to buy it - that's your fall back position when they say 'what are you willing to pay for it ?'

With no opportunity to build on it and no other access it is largely worthless and you could reasonably point this out (I assume they are not using it ?). So .. first offer if they reject a straight transfer - low hundreds I think.

If you don't have the deeds to your property and next doors it might be a good idea to buy them from the Land Registry - you can do it on line - costs pounds. It will tell you the true boundaries, what the mortgages are if there are any and who definitely owns it ... you need to know this because if there is a mortgage on their property the mortgagor will need to give permission for the transfer - another fee for this usually.

Don't go near surveyors or estate agents, don't tell people what you are planning - anyone - the less interest you express the better - make it look like you are doing them a favour when you broach the subject and try not to look too eager.

How do I know all this ? ...I tried to buy the bottom half of my neighbouring garden many years ago ... it was wildy overgrown and the house was rented out and the tenants used it as a dumping ground. It was all going fine until someone suggested to him that land in the area was £30,000 an acre (at the time - flat, building land with no trees and the potential for planning permission it was !) but with no access, a large sycamore, a yew tree and a pine tree all with TPO's on them his 200m2 was not .. he upped his price to more than I wanted to pay and I said no. He moved a few years later and the new neighbour who lived there actually looks after it.

 

[Penninetrader]

Another option may be offering to rent it on a long term basis at a low allotment type rent. they get to benefit from the improvement at no cost to them. Win win

 

[Newbeeneil]

We live on an odd plot of land that 100 years ago, owned nearly all the land around it. One of our 6 neighbours’ garden wraps around the back of ours and their fence panels are always falling over in the storms & now we have recently removed an ugly eleagnus hedge, 2 have gone in the last two days and we floated the idea of buying a small piece of their garden (with the crap fence) which would make a nice little apiary. It’s approx 100sqm, cannot be built on due to a covenant and has no other access. It is mostly a few fruit trees and shrubs.
So, my question is, how much should we reasonably offer?

I put an advert in my local village mag for a year asking if anyone in the locality had a piece of scrub or woodland they wanted to sell. I had numerous people offering me land to rent but no one was offering to sell anything!
Saying that, a 5 acre piece of woodland about 200yrs from my front door was sold recently for £50k and I didn’t see that it was for sale!

 

[Murox]

I would go along with pargyle's route first to test the waters. Years ago I bought a similar sized piece of ground in Norfolk for the costs of the legal work etc. Back then it was cheaper of course, but it made a wonderful veg plot and increased the value of my property when I came to sell it of course.

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

It was mentioned on farming today a week or two ago that agricultural ground is making on average £12.500 an acre.
Small private plots not for development upto £100,000, building plots name your price due to the new government policy.

 

[Moobee]

It was mentioned on farming today a week or two ago that agricultural ground is making on average £12.500 an acre.
Small private plots not for development upto £100,000, building plots name your price due to the new government policy.

It can’t be built on as there’s a covenant that covers our land and the four plots around it (which this property owned back in the 1920’s) and the neighbours garden is one of those plots so it makes it fairly worthless in that respect.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It can’t be built on as there’s a covenant that covers our land and the four plots around it (which this property owned back in the 1920’s) and the neighbours garden is one of those plots so it makes it fairly worthless in that respect.

Depends if Ange has her eye on it.

 

[Moobee]

Depends if Ange has her eye on it.

don’t think even Ange could build on this tiny plot with no access except via our garden!

 

[boywonder]

What Garry R says.

That's to say what you're prepared to pay, and what they're prepared to accept, assuming they are prepared to sell at all.

Twice recently, myself and my wider family have been in a position whereby we've tried to secure small parcels of 'dead' garden land to the rear (albeit bigger than your 100sqm). In each case a generous £10k was offered. One jumped at the chance (both parties happy), whereas the others are deeply suspicious and are holding out for what they perceive to be a 'fair development value' (even though we can't/won't 'develop' it). Given that we are the only plausible interested party, I think they'll be holding out a long time.

Land (even crap land) can be very emotive.

I personally would approach them with the proposition, and explain that, if they were to go for it that (in addition to consideration for the land), you'll pay for all fees... And invite them to come back to you with their thoughts, and, if positive, a figure they had in mind. I would think that should be in the hundreds, or the very low '000's for 100sqm ... but any response will allow you to calibrate your next steps.

 

[Bee’s Knees]

Make it easy for them ... offer to build a new fence to demark the area, suggest that you might be interested in extending your garden and cultivating it, don't mention the apiary and start off by asking if they would be willing to transfer the area to you if you paid for all the legal fees and the Land Registry changes (you can expect a bill for that of around £1200) plus the cost of the new fencing ... not cheap. I would not start with an offer to buy it - that's your fall back position when they say 'what are you willing to pay for it ?'

With no opportunity to build on it and no other access it is largely worthless and you could reasonably point this out (I assume they are not using it ?). So .. first offer if they reject a straight transfer - low hundreds I think.

If you don't have the deeds to your property and next doors it might be a good idea to buy them from the Land Registry - you can do it on line - costs pounds. It will tell you the true boundaries, what the mortgages are if there are any and who definitely owns it ... you need to know this because if there is a mortgage on their property the mortgagor will need to give permission for the transfer - another fee for this usually.

Don't go near surveyors or estate agents, don't tell people what you are planning - anyone - the less interest you express the better - make it look like you are doing them a favour when you broach the subject and try not to look too eager.

How do I know all this ? ...I tried to buy the bottom half of my neighbouring garden many years ago ... it was wildy overgrown and the house was rented out and the tenants used it as a dumping ground. It was all going fine until someone suggested to him that land in the area was £30,000 an acre (at the time - flat, building land with no trees and the potential for planning permission it was !) but with no access, a large sycamore, a yew tree and a pine tree all with TPO's on them his 200m2 was not .. he upped his price to more than I wanted to pay and I said no. He moved a few years later and the new neighbour who lived there actually looks after it.

I found this amusing, decreasing someone else’s garden to increase the size of your own is never going to be seen as doing someone a favour.

100m2 isn’t a lot but it depends on what percentage of their garden that amounts to them losing and what increase in size % you are gaining. If it is only 5% it will have less value than if it was 25%.
And private garden, if that is what it is, always going to worth more then the price of agricultural land.
Also the location of the land, an extra 100m2 of garden in central London could easily be worth 300k!

But as somebody already said price is typically set by what people are prepared to pay but in this case this will be dictated about what the seller is prepared to accept.

 

[Macbear]

I found this amusing, decreasing someone else’s garden to increase the size of your own is never going to be seen as doing someone a favour.

100m2 isn’t a lot but it depends on what percentage of their garden that amounts to them losing and what increase in size % you are gaining. If it is only 5% it will have less value than if it was 25%.
And private garden, if that is what it is, always going to worth more then the price of agricultural land.
Also the location of the land, an extra 100m2 of garden in central London could easily be worth 300k!

But as somebody already said price is typically set by what people are prepared to pay but in this case this will be dictated about what the seller is prepared to accept.

Another factor may be what is on the piece in consideration. If there's a lot of rampant bamboo which would otherwise invade and threaten your property creating a buffer zone may well be worth opening the coffers for.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

It can’t be built on as there’s a covenant that covers our land and the four plots around it (which this property owned back in the 1920’s) and the neighbours garden is one of those plots so it makes it fairly worthless in that respect.

I understand covenants are of no use if no one will enforce them. Apart from you or any subsequent owner of your property is anyone else likely to?

 

[Macbear]

I understand covenants are of no use if no one will enforce them. Apart from you or any subsequent owner of your property is anyone else likely to?

Whilst trying to remain politically neutral, it seems to me that there are moves especially by central government and county councils to compulsory purchase of land for residential development. This seems to emasculate covenants.
In my own town a local landed gent dug trenches through an SSSI some years ago, thus trashing it. The site has now been identified by an outside planner as suited to well over 100 homes and forced on us as part of the local development plan. The SSSI proved unenforceable as "it's all about having connections, dear boy"! The fact that the patch of ground is riddled with underground streams and springs so houses built there will pretty quickly show the effects doesn't matter. "Never mind the quality, feel the width" perhaps? It looks as if those with money and influence are doing much as they please and be hanged to the rest of us.

 

[GaryH]

We live on an odd plot of land that 100 years ago, owned nearly all the land around it. One of our 6 neighbours’ garden wraps around the back of ours and their fence panels are always falling over in the storms & now we have recently removed an ugly eleagnus hedge, 2 have gone in the last two days and we floated the idea of buying a small piece of their garden (with the crap fence) which would make a nice little apiary. It’s approx 100sqm, cannot be built on due to a covenant and has no other access. It is mostly a few fruit trees and shrubs.
So, my question is, how much should we reasonably offer?

I bought similar. 3k

 

[Moobee]

I understand covenants are of no use if no one will enforce them. Apart from you or any subsequent owner of your property is anyone else likely to?

Even if we manage to buy this tiny piece of land, there’s no access so in terms of building land, it’s useless. A builder tried to buy our house before we did (as the plot is about a third of an acre & he wanted to build two houses on it) but he was put off by the covenant.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Whilst trying to remain politically neutral, it seems to me that there are moves especially by central government and county councils to compulsory purchase of land for residential development. This seems to emasculate covenants.
In my own town a local landed gent dug trenches through an SSSI some years ago, thus trashing it. The site has now been identified by an outside planner as suited to well over 100 homes and forced on us as part of the local development plan. The SSSI proved unenforceable as "it's all about having connections, dear boy"! The fact that the patch of ground is riddled with underground streams and springs so houses built there will pretty quickly show the effects doesn't matter. "Never mind the quality, feel the width" perhaps? It looks as if those with money and influence are doing much as they please and be hanged to the rest of us.

Following the 2007 flooding in my village the parish council set up a flood action group. For my sins I ended up as chairman. It transpired there had been previous floods and groups set up but in every previous case they fizzled out. Not on my watch matey!
It took years to get a proper scheme developed and completed but eventually old watercourses were identified, cleared and new culverts installed where old ones had been blocked or collapsed during large scale housing developments. A new pumping station built to discharge water from ditches into the Yorkshire House. Even now maintenance needs have be reminded to the parish council and the internal drainage board.