Price of honey bees :(

[B+.]

From where you have got the idea, that I get strong hives via joining? You insist it so much that you cannot read my explanation

This is how you've explained it before.
I understand that the average yield per colony in Finland is around 40Kg (http://www.mehilaishoitajat.fi/liitto/in-english/) so 200Kg is 500% of the national average.

 

[Finman]

Try to stay calm Finman. You're not making much sense. Would you have us believe that the environment solely determines the yield? I think not.
A good beekeeper would be well advised to learn from the best and apply that knowledge in his own area. However, a beekeeping system is only part of the answer. You need a reliable phenotype too. My work is based on sound scientific principles and using the best stock there is. Our practices are completely different because our aims are different.

Just keep you ideas. Nothing to learn. I knew those 50 years ago.

 

[B+.]

The whole point of selectively breeding local bees is to move the background population in a desired direction in a sustainable way working in tune with the drones in an area.
Of course this is a long and difficult path, it's much easier to buy in queens from an established program and waffle on about how wonderful the bees "you've" bred are. When you're efforts inevitably come to an end all you've left is genetic pollution which will soon fade.
Efforts with bees already in a locality have a much better chance of long term improvements sustainably continued by each generation of beekeepers as they pass on the baton.

Actually, no, it isn't.
The point of a selective breeding programme is to improve the bees in the breeding population. Nothing you, or I say, will change the fact that beekeepers want these improvements.
If my efforts will fade as quickly as you seem to believe, you've nothing to worry about, have you?
"Local bees" are often aggressive, susceptible to disease, unproductive and swarmy though. That's what drives the demand for better bees.

 

[For want of a better word]

Actually, no, it isn't.
The point of a selective breeding programme is to improve the bees in the breeding population. Nothing you, or I say, will change the fact that beekeepers want these improvements.
If my efforts will fade as quickly as you seem to believe, you've nothing to worry about, have you?
"Local bees" are often aggressive, susceptible to disease, unproductive and swarmy though. That's what drives the demand for better bees.

Therefore the need for selective bee improvement, by not breeding from the introgressed horrors, but selecting for the traits desirable... good disease resistance, good productivity.. even in the poor years...less swarmy and easy to handle.

All scored on the BIBBA colony record sheets.

Breeding good queens will produce good drones ... and flooding the locality with them will improve others bees inevitably?

Yeghes da

 

[For want of a better word]

How can you find the opposite? You don't keep Buckfast bees.

Not any more!!

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

Actually, no, it isn't.
The point of a selective breeding programme is to improve the bees in the breeding population. Nothing you, or I say, will change the fact that beekeepers want these improvements.
If my efforts will fade as quickly as you seem to believe, you've nothing to worry about, have you?
"Local bees" are often aggressive, susceptible to disease, unproductive and swarmy though. That's what drives the demand for better bees.

I have a cum laude degree genetics in university. It is enough to understand bee breeding. And I am able to read researches in this area. And I understand very well, how big job is to breed anti varroa stock.
And varroa evelopes all the time.

 

[sipa]

I thought this thread was about the price of bees.

 

[Finman]

I thought this thread was about the price of bees.

Yeah. It was. But now it is, how mongrels should be bred to pure non mongrels.

 

[Millet]

Yeah. It was. But now it is, how mongrels should be bred to pure non mongrels.

But it has nothing to do with you i suspect

 

[Finman]

But it has nothing to do with you i suspect

I am bred mongrel. What then? My mother selected my father. Or controversy.

 

[Beefriendly]

I thought this thread was about the price of bees.

To get back on topic, how much are you (or anyone else) prepared to spend on a pedigree queen...knowing you will only be able to breed one generation of daughters before having to buy another....
My own experience is they recoup their outlay in honey produced in spades!! And their daughters are for free!!
That's assuming maximum honey is the aim...it isn't for many bee keepers.

 

[Finman]

.
Normal 45€ queen will clean nectar from pasture flowers as well as pedigree queens.

Artificially inseminated queens are used as mother queens. Their price is something else than open mated.

Make couple of hives more if you do not get enough honey.

 

[Hivemaker.]

.
Artificially inseminated queens are used as mother queens.

Not always, sometimes they are inseminated just to head honey production colonies.

 

[B+.]

Not always, sometimes they are inseminated just to head honey production colonies.

I also do single drone inseminations. These queens would never head full production colonies but they're useful for testing purposes.

 

[B+.]

To get back on topic, how much are you (or anyone else) prepared to spend on a pedigree queen...knowing you will only be able to breed one generation of daughters before having to buy another....

I've paid as little at 40 euros for II queens I've bought but I've been given island mated queens to test at no charge. I've had pipettes of semen given to me at no charge too. That's the way people are when you have a common goal!
Next year, it will be my turn to return the favour.
It's not always about the money.
The queens last just as long as any other queen. It just depends on how you use them.

 

[Beefriendly]

I also do single drone inseminations. These queens would never head full production colonies but they're useful for testing purposes.

They allow you to reduce the variability from a queen mating with 10+ drones...so all the bees have the same father and 50 :50 chance from the mother..so 75% related. Great for assessing and quantifying a particular trait.
B+ I thought you were involved in progression along several traits at the same time, rather than just one, as these crosses do.

 

[B+.]

They allow you to reduce the variability from a queen mating with 10+ drones...so all the bees have the same father and 50 :50 chance from the mother..so 75% related. Great for assessing and quantifying a particular trait.
B+ I thought you were involved in progression along several traits at the same time, rather than just one, as these crosses do.

Absolutely right.
Queens which produce highly hygienic colonies are then selected for use in the VSH project though. The daughter queens are instrumentally inseminated with the semen from a single drone (produced by a queen which is also highly hygienic). The queens then develop in Mini-Plus hives and are inoculated with 100 varroa mites harvested from susceptible colonies using the icing sugar shaker. 7-10 days after sealing, the pupa are examined similar to the test I did on 55-2-70-2016 (https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3853).

 

[Stiffy]

***Yet I find the total opposite..... and there is little moor than Bodmin betwixt our locations
Possibly there is something programmed into the Bf's genes that makes them good for fields of rape or whatever.... but hopeless at multifloral and hedgerow foraging??

However I do actively select for the best of the Cornish native queens for my own bee improvement programme.

Importing the so called Buckfast hybrids and keeping alongside dark Natives is no way forward and can only lead to misery.


Yeghes da

There is close on 100 miles between us (thank goodness).
So, in your mythical world we should keep inferior bees to satisfy the whim of a minority, in your dreams!
By the way, New Zealand Carnies seem popular along the Tamar, must be playing havoc with anyone trying to improve their Buckfast stock!
S

 

[Stiffy]

Therefore the need for selective bee improvement, by not breeding from the introgressed horrors, but selecting for the traits desirable... good disease resistance, good productivity.. even in the poor years...less swarmy and easy to handle.
/QUOTE]

Think Brother Adam started this and his good work has been taken on and continues. I don’t see any logic in trying to reinvent something that already exists.
S

 

[B+.]

Think Brother Adam started this and his good work has been taken on and continues. I don’t see any logic in trying to reinvent something that already exists.
S

Brother Adam wasn't the first bee breeder, nor will he be the last. He died over 20 years ago and bee breeding continues. We learn new things all of the time