Price of honey bees :(

[Finman]

Think Brother Adam started this and his good work has been taken on and continues. I don’t see any logic in trying to reinvent something that already exists.
S

Professional beekeepers do all the time breeding work even if they know nothing about brother Adam. Bee breeding is not invented in England.

First step was export and import colonies and get experiences about different bee stocks

First opportunity to breed bees was, when hives got movable combs 150 y ago. The queen can be found and change.

Next huge step was artificial insemination.

These are main tools too in these days.
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I have had tens of bee breeds and I have lots of experience about beebreeds. They are becoming all the time better.

Disease resistancy is becoming really better. I remember how sick were unbred mongrels. They had all diseases and the brood area was like handled with shoot gun.

I can see in this forum, that anti disease breeding with genetics is really far from reality. Many diseases can be controlled with immune genes, but even universities do not know possibilities. And professional beekeepers do not believe that those exist.

Everyone pray, that one day we have higly hygienic stock, which solves all problems. But that day will not come.

B+ is a strange breeder. He has perfect queens, but he does not sell them.
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[For want of a better word]

By the way, New Zealand Carnies seem popular along the Tamar, must be playing havoc with anyone trying to improve their Buckfast stock!

I do not know of any Tamar valley Beekeepers trying to improve their so called "Buckfast" ( Carniolian/Italian hybrid?) stock. Ones who still use them seem to follow the tired and tested imported queens and requeen every two years methodology ( with aggressive drone brood culling to reduce varroa load), but seems to me that the yields of honey produced in the area have been reducing year on year.

My own New Zealand stock within the greatgreygreengreaseytamarrivervalleyallsetaboutwithquangoesandmangroves! have not performed well this year to say the least!

Climate change? The new " Danish pastry" virus? ( Reported as now throughout Cornwall and the Greater West country... and under investigation by NBU/Apha/Dr Giles Budge????) I don't know why bees are failing.

I have noticed a big uptake in interest of new and restarting beekeepers within the Tamar Valley catchment wanting to try using Cornish Native bees.... even on the Devonshire side!

On another note... a BIG thank you to B+ for his help with my own AI efforts over the last couple of seasons.... painstaking research into a complex area ... and without massive grant funding!



Mytten da

 

[Hivemaker.]

Next huge step was artificial insemination.
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And has been around for lots of years, so simple to do that I don't know why almost every beekeeper doesn't use it.

 

[Finman]

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NZ Carnies.... What are those. Carnies were imported to NZ from Germany about 10 years ago when they tried to breed mite resistant bees.

You can read it from NZ news how Carnies are ne to NZ. Project was not succesful, but now they are selling mite resistant NZ Carnies even in Canada.
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One of these breeding humbugs. Well done. Better than Lasi.

 

[Finman]

And has been around for lots of years, so simple to do that I don't know why almost every beekeeper doesn't use it.

It started around after Second World War.

... Easy to answer why every beekeeper does not use it.... But I let it be. Many reasons.

In Britain 96% are 2 hive owners. And they would inseminate 1 queen per year. And from what material.
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[B+.]

B+ is a strange breeder. He has perfect queens, but he does not sell them.
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You are wrong Finman.
I suppose it's a state of mind: if you believe you have perfection, you'll stop trying to improve. I take the view that they can always be improved so I don't get lazy.
I sell some open mated queens and they have found their way all over the country. My inseminated queens are experimental so would only be useful to breeders.

 

[B+.]

On another note... a BIG thank you to B+ for his help with my own AI efforts over the last couple of seasons.... painstaking research into a complex area ... and without massive grant funding!

I'm happy to have been able to help.

I grew up in the North-East. We didn't have much but what we had we shared. That has stuck with me. If I can help anyone, I will. Surely, that's what the forum should be about?

 

[Finman]

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You can read from last CCD reports that one big reason of 40% annual dead rate is breeding humbug.

Hobby beekeepers believe that breeding or natural selection majes bees stronger.
Queen sellers sell features, which queens do not have.

False prophets and natural beekeepers deliver facts which do not exist.

This discussion has rised over false prophets knowledge level. Not much reality.

Last news are , that there are genes,which make honey from nothing.
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[Finman]

You are wrong Finman.
I suppose it's a state of mind: if you believe you have perfection, you'll stop trying to improve. I take the view that they can always be improved so I don't get lazy.
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I bred bees before you was born. During my beekeeping years I have seen average yield improvement from 15 kg to 130 kg. No need to teach me.

About 1970 I told that my goal is 100 kg/hive. An old beebreder almost attacked on me and barked me mad. Since then 100 -150 kg is very usual to his son. But cultivation of rape has made it possible. It gives another yield.

I just renewed all my genepool in two years. Guess what, I did not changed it to worse. The change cost to me 1000 €. 100 kg honey.

 

[Finman]

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However, the British Beebreeding is flying high!

- Buckfast
- Carniolan
- numerous local Black Bees
- mongrels

No one is breeding Italians
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[Eyeman]

And has been around for lots of years, so simple to do that I don't know why almost every beekeeper doesn't use it.

We don't want to put you out of business!

 

[Stiffy]

And has been around for lots of years, so simple to do that I don't know why almost every beekeeper doesn't use it.

I have looked into it and cost of start-up equipment seems prohibitive at present. I would also want to be shown or attend a good course before attempting. However, it is something I will be looking at for the future as apart from one out apiary, the local drones in my area have a lot of unwanted characteristics.
S

 

[Hivemaker.]

I have looked into it and cost of start-up equipment seems prohibitive at present.

You could buy a good second hand microscope... and easily make almost everything else needed yourself, like perforated sting hooks, glass insemination tips, syringe, queen holder etc....for next to nothing.

 

[B+.]

I have looked into it and cost of start-up equipment seems prohibitive at present. I would also want to be shown or attend a good course before attempting. However, it is something I will be looking at for the future as apart from one out apiary, the local drones in my area have a lot of unwanted characteristics.
S

It took me several years to build up my equipment - a bit here and there. The best advice is go for the best you can afford even if it means it takes you longer to get there. You can make do with other bits until you have your full compliment of kit.
The Latshaw instrument is probably the simplest because it does away with the platform, posts, etc.
Many years ago, I was part of a group (IINGRID) led by John Pollard (now deceased). That man was a genius. He showed how simple pieces of equipment could be used in instrumental insemination (e.g. binoculars instead of a microscope, a bit of plastic tube stuck on the table with blu-tac as a queen holder, fish-tank valves and tubing to supply the anaesthetic to the queen).

 

[Millet]

B+ is a strange breeder. He has perfect queens, but he does not sell them.
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B+ is so strange he give me one of his Queens for free.

 

[Finman]

B+ is so strange he give me one of his Queens for free.

On this rural area, when a farmer does some services, and I ask, how much I should pay, the answer is nothing.

But it does not mean nothing. A farmer let me show, how I appreciate his work.

If I say thanks, he will not have time since then, and the whole village will know what kind of ------- I am.

If I offer 50€, the aswer is: Good heavens. That is too much. But he smiles and say, okay, thanks!

 

[mbc]

On this rural area, when a farmer does some services, and I ask, how much I should pay, the answer is nothing.

But it does not mean nothing. A farmer let me show, how I appreciate his work.

If I say thanks, he will not have time since then, and the whole village will know what kind of ------- I am.

If I offer 50€, the aswer is: Good heavens. That is too much. But he smiles and say, okay, thanks!

Lol, and spot on for farmers round here too.

 

[Millet]

On this rural area, when a farmer does some services, and I ask, how much I should pay, the answer is nothing.

But it does not mean nothing. A farmer let me show, how I appreciate his work.

If I say thanks, he will not have time since then, and the whole village will know what kind of ------- I am.

If I offer 50€, the aswer is: Good heavens. That is too much. But he smiles and say, okay, thanks!

If you are serving his sheep. (reindeer) no wonder he lets you crack one of into them.
I was on about bees Queen bees like many others in recent posts.

 

[Stiffy]

You could buy a good second hand microscope... and easily make almost everything else needed yourself, like perforated sting hooks, glass insemination tips, syringe, queen holder etc....for next to nothing.

Thanks Pete & B+
Some winter research me thinks. I wouldn’t want to buy equipment that be useless, I have a shed full already or so I am told frequently
Pointers most welcome?
S