Pre wired langstroth frames, floppy foundation

[BeekeeperBob]

What am I doing wrong?

I have always used nationals and this year, decided to try a langsteoth.

I have some frames with pre wried foundation from abelo.

The first thing I notice that's different is the sides of the frames don't have the grooves.

Once I get the frame assembled and put the foundation in, it just seems floppy, and despite the foundation being flat before I start it just bows.

I have the wire loops bent at 90 degrees and pinned in the wedge.

I just can't figure out how I get the foundation to be taught and flat.

Any pointers?
Thanks

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The first thing I notice that's different is the sides of the frames don't have the grooves.

they don't need them as the foundation doesn't need to reach all the way to the side bars

I just realised you said pre wired foundation not pre-wired frames.
With langs you wire the frames (usually horizontally) then fix the foundation to the tensioned wire with either a crimper or by passing a 12v current through the wire with the foundation resting on top of the wire.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Is the foundation too wide for the frame making it bow out? Just trim a bit off one side? As JBM says, it doesn’t need to reach the side bars

 

[BeekeeperBob]

Is the foundation too wide for the frame making it bow out? Just trim a bit off one side? As JBM says, it doesn’t need to reach the side bars

Nope. It doesn't touch the side bars, it does fit in the two at the bottom

 

[BeekeeperBob]

they don't need them as the foundation doesn't need to reach all the way to the side bars

I just realised you said pre wired foundation not pre-wired frames.
With langs you wire the frames (usually horizontally) then fix the foundation to the tensioned wire with either a crimper or by passing a 12v current through the wire with the foundation resting on top of the wire.

Not with wired foundation surely

 

[Erichalfbee]

Nope. It doesn't touch the side bars, it does fit in the two at the bottom

Ah. I can’t see why it would bow out then if it hangs freely between the bottom bars.

 

[BeekeeperBob]

I don't understand what supports it. The nationals have the grooves which the foundation slots into holding it.

About the best thing I can do is to put a cocktail stick in the small eyes below the bottom bar to keep it where it should be.

Without it, it is just floppy

 

[BeekeeperBob]

Ah. I can’t see why it would bow out then if it hangs freely between the bottom bars.

It's just floppy

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's just floppy

must have bee bleddy warm where it is kept then

 

[BeekeeperBob]

must have bee bleddy warm where it is kept then

19 degrees centigrade

 

[rolande]

I don't understand what supports it. The nationals have the grooves which the foundation slots into holding it.

About the best thing I can do is to put a cocktail stick in the small eyes below the bottom bar to keep it where it should be.

The cocktail stick may actually work to some extent -it took a bit of thinking to realise what you meant.

Realistically you should consider drilling the sidebars and wiring the frames, then embedding the foundation -usually not prewired but you can still embed prewired if that's what you happen to have. Unless the bottom bars are wide enough apart to allow the foundation to hang very freely you will get some distortion in the foundation, just a little bit of bite will stop it moving (if not in storage then when the weight and warmth of the wax building bees come to bear on it).
Ignore the grooves these just happen to be bs frames which we wire as well as the larger ungrooved dadant frames which we also use.

 

[Michael Palmer]

What am I doing wrong?

I have always used nationals and this year, decided to try a langsteoth.

I have some frames with pre wried foundation from abelo.

The first thing I notice that's different is the sides of the frames don't have the grooves.

Once I get the frame assembled and put the foundation in, it just seems floppy, and despite the foundation being flat before I start it just bows.

I have the wire loops bent at 90 degrees and pinned in the wedge.

I just can't figure out how I get the foundation to be taught and flat.

Any pointers?
Thanks

Langstroth frames need horizontal wires. Here, the Langstroth frame side bars have four holes. I use the middle two. These two wires prevent the foundation from warping. They are embedded into the wax with electrical wire embedder or a hot water heated spur embedded. One thing to think about. The vertical wires embedded in the foundation came off a roll. The wires have a memory of the curve of that roll. No matter how you attach the edges of the wired foundation...grooves in the side bars or support pins...the center of the foundation remembers the curve of the roll. Hence the horizontal wired to hold the vertical wires straight.