Poor quality nuc from supplier with queen cells

[Philip]

Not fit for purpose is supported by the SBI list of issues.
With what I have learned to date I would simply ask for a full refund and ask them to collect their bees, this should not be tolerated

It is probably too late to enforce now without goodwill from the supplier or the courts small claim or otherwise.

Perhaps the MOST important thing to ask before parting with deposit or agreeing to be supplied is will the NUC be supplied to the published BBKA standard for the supply of a NUC. That you are dealing with a UK Company / supplier. If they will not provide this assurance in writing then jog on.

Its hard when you are new and keen to get your bees. If their reputable suppliers they will have no qualms about providing this assurance.

Ultimately it will benefit the Craft / Industry as a whole.

When I started I was supplied with a NUC that did not last the first season primarily due to the poor state of a few frames in a box. Took it on the chin and moved on.

Good luck with sorting this out.

 

[sipa]

The nuc they supplied to you is a disgrace !

Demand a full refund, then them they have seven days to collect them at their expense and at a time of your choosing. If not collected from you within the seven days you are disposing of the bees. It is very unlikely that they collect the bees.

So you might end up keeping them.
Get a new nuc from someone who knows what a nuc should be.

Try your local beekeepers assoc.

 

[Davea]

I think its about time ths admin changed it's stance on naming & shaming suppliers along with being able to name suppliers who they've had a good service from.
Isn't that what a forum is about, the sharing of information for the benefit of all.

How about it admin??

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think its about time ths admin changed it's stance on naming & shaming suppliers

This is treading on very soft legal ground.
I don't think it should be aired in public to get the forum's owner involved in legal proceedings.
If you want the name of this particular supplier PM the OP...easy.

 

[mbc]

mbc you're jumping to conclusions which may may not be right but let the OP and the supplier try to sort this out offline and get a result that both are happy with.

I'm not jumping to any conclusions but simply outlining the likely truth from the information available

OP is a new beekeeper:

SBI also observed:
- uncapped cells, indicating bald brood over the forming pupaes.
- wax moth damage on the combs
- varroa damage (cannibalism of pupae)
- the combs were very dirty, old combs
- a lot of propolis on the frame ends, which were well propolised into the travel box as well as brace comb.

Plus brood pattern is not good, comb is clearly well used and certainly some of the frames appear to have seen better days.

£240 less £120 ... still not good value in my book. Sorry MBC but for once I think you are off target.

So a trained observer came and observed what he/she could observe in any of our hives, so what ?
Bald brood/ wax moth damage - none visible in the photo's so not a huge problem, not the best thing to see in an expensive new nuc but not the end of the world either.
Varroa damage (cannibalism of pupa) - talk about jumping to conclusions ! the vendor should have charged extra for the Ron Hoskins'esk varroa chomping bees.
The combs were dirty and very old - you aint seen nothing ! those combs are reasonable in terms of age and cleanliness.
Propolis on frame ends ? get a life, maybe next time the frame end cleaning fairies should be subcontracted for a bit of scrubbing.
Brood pattern is not good - the one relevant complaint, and its unclear from the information whether this brood is the progeny of the queen heading the nuc, is the new laying pattern satisfactory ?
"See how they develop and report back, we'll resolve any continuing issues then, but heres half your dosh back because you complained anyway," is more than fair and anybody who thinks otherwise please never consider buying a nuc from me

 

[Bates]

I just hope and pray it is not a small hive beetle larvae

Dont worry its not SHB, seen plenty of them to say. The nuc is fairly poor, the frames aren't that bad but extremely steep at 240 quid we sell full colonies for that.

 

[Chris B]

Not a good nuc, but "shaming" is not necessary either. If it is who we think it is then they have a track record of making things right one way or another, and from what we've heard here it sounds like they will do so again. The way a company deals with this sort of thing is a mark of how good they are to do business with.

 

[theengraver]

At the end of the day no one should buy a nuc without a full inspection.
or if inspection is not possible buyer beware a good supplier would swop the nuc if there was a problem with an un inspected but saying that a good supplier would not get in to that position to start with.
A lot can happen and go wrong with a nuc in a very short time and that's why it is so important for buyer and seller that a full inspection is done and both sides are happy before money changes hands!

 

[clv101]

At the end of the day no one should buy a nuc without a full inspection.

I agree. Practically though, what is the impact of inspecting a nuc during the day when there a many flyers, then shutting it up and driving off? It's not always practical to view one day, seal the box that evening then pick it up the following day. How many flyers are out at any one time - how significant is it to leave them behind when collecting an inspected nuc?

 

[kevrhcfag]

Distance selling regulations are fine, but you maybe much more susceptible to the "puppy dog" effect in a weeks time. Just like a puppy its easy to get attached put it to bed and get shot now.

Took my daughter for a puppy once, despite my best attempts at steering her away from the one she wanted I couldn't fortunately it had a limp that I hadn't noticed and when she had it home for a while she understood why I didn't want her to get it. Took it to the vet asked what he thought and took the dog back the next day after being ignored by the seller. Still had tears all the way home, if you keep them and see what happens, it will end in tears.

 

[richardbees]

.......you shot a puppy?

 

[bees4u]

I think its about time ths admin changed it's stance on naming & shaming suppliers along with being able to name suppliers who they've had a good service from.
Isn't that what a forum is about, the sharing of information for the benefit of all.

How about it admin??

It's a shame when people name & shame a supplier before they have a chance to sort out the problem. I've heard this many times from bee keepers saying "Oh I wouldn't buy a queen from so & so, they are rubbish etc and when I ask if they have spoken to to the supplier about it, a lot of the time they haven't. With queens & nucs we can't always get it perfect but should be allowed a chance to put things right before slagging suppliers off in public. I always say to my customers, let me know if your are not happy & we'll sort it out.

 

[pargyle]

anybody who thinks otherwise please never consider buying a nuc from me

Come on MBC - you would never sell a Nuc in this condition .... particularly to someone who might not know what they are looking at.

If the Supplier had any sense they would have bitten the bullet immediately and said ..keep the Nuc, here's a full refund and a voucher for £25 towards your spend on whatever you need to get this crap up together, And..... we are really sorry that one of our subcontract suppliers did not meet our normal standards.... THAT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE.

I ran my business on the basis that, if clients were not happy with a job we had done then they didn't pay for it. I never had anyone call on this offer because we never left a job until WE were happy with it !

It takes a lot of effort to build a reputation and it only takes one thing to destroy it ....this thread has been viewed a lot of times and people have probably guessed who the supplier is ... let's hope they are reading this as well and the next post we get from the OP is total happiness not 'wait and see'.

 

[pargyle]

I think its about time ths admin changed it's stance on naming & shaming suppliers along with being able to name suppliers who they've had a good service from.
Isn't that what a forum is about, the sharing of information for the benefit of all.

How about it admin??

This is not a good idea ... public forums are not the place to 'name and shame' anyone ... there will always be the problem of subjectivity ... what one person thinks is rubbish is acceptable to another. You only have to look at the diverse opinions on this thread to see ... There is the odd exception when it is supported by a large number of posts .... Weald Place ? - even then ....

 

[VEG]

It would be nice to have an update from the original poster as to what they have done/intend to do.
I agree with the company being given a chance to sort it out as we ALL make mistakes at sometime or other.

 

[Pennyfold Bees]

Update from OP

I'm am in ongoing positive dialog with the supplier and I'll post and full update on the forum when we've come to an agreement on the resolution.

I'd not intended to be so explicit regarding the possible supplier, at least until the situation has been concluded, I'd meant to say "a large equipment supplier" in my original post. The fact they are a large equipment supplier rather than being only a nuc/bee/niche supplier, is important as they offered me a credit note which can therefore be spent on a variety of useful equipment. As a new beekeeper I know I'll be spending money on lots more equipment and I'm still optimistic that we'll come to a resolution that we're both happy with. I'd appreciate if everyone can wait for a few more days. Thanks.

 

[oliver90owner]

I think its about time ths admin changed it's stance on naming & shaming suppliers along with being able to name suppliers who they've had a good service from.

Clearly this is on-going, but I would add that there is almost certainly a third party to be dealt with in this matter - the actual supplier to the retailer may be to blame, here.
Hopefully an amicable result will transpire, but think here a bit deeper - how much was the original supplier paid? I would think that an offer of the original half price may well have only reflected a 'no-profit' sale. But, there again, as I have never ever bought in a new queen or a nuc, I am not the best person to see it from all perspectives.

RAB

 

[pargyle]

I think its about time ths admin changed it's stance on naming & shaming suppliers along with being able to name suppliers who they've had a good service from.

Clearly this is on-going, but I would add that there is almost certainly a third party to be dealt with in this matter - the actual supplier to the retailer may be to blame, here.
Hopefully an amicable result will transpire, but think here a bit deeper - how much was the original supplier paid? I would think that an offer of the original half price may well have only reflected a 'no-profit' sale. But, there again, as I have never ever bought in a new queen or a nuc, I am not the best person to see it from all perspectives.

RAB

I think you are bang on the money here ... as I said earlier ... it depends how much the seller (rather than the original supplier) values their reputation. For me ... the loss of a few quid of short term profit is nothing compared to the unknown losses of future customers being put off ...

 

[Queens59]

Hope all goes well Pennyfold - by giving your supplier feedback it makes their position with the subcontractor more solid, and you may yet get a better offer in terms of compensation ...

Good Luck

 

[Bosveldleeu]

I have sold about 15 nucs last year and if that happened to any nuc I supplied I would offer a new one free of charge, especially if the buyer is a new beekeeper. They need all the support they can get.

Somebody that already has bees may find it possible to remedy this with frames from other hives etc but this is a really unfair start to you. It really looks like somebody has just grabbed a few old frames form a colony, probably as a swarm control measure, and shoved them in a box, then sold them.

Really dissapointed that this has happened to you, beekeepers in general are nice, helpfull and honest to deal with, perhaps it is better to look for a nuc from someone local. The weather is better now and there should be some around soon.

Good luck!