Poor quality nuc from supplier with queen cells

[oliver90owner]

Now, then, you have bees of a sort. What value would you put on them? I would think that the initial offer might be increased considerably from 50%, to more like...? That might depend on whether there is a good quuen there, etc etc.

Leaving it longer may well limit your distance buying rights - of that I am not sure as you have a record of your initail complaint.

The reduced value is not simply of the bees, the comb and possibly the frames need replacing at full cost. There is also wasted time effort and potential cleaning of your newly inhabited hive, etc etc.

RAB

 

[johnandyrob]

Now,
Leaving it longer may well limit your distance buying rights - of that I am not sure as you have a record of your initail complaint.
RAB

As RAb says it could limit your rights to leave it two weeks. I would check your distance rights and make sure your still on firm ground if you do decide to wait two weeks.

 

[thebhoy]

You are on the forum why not post a 'nuc wanted' post or ask for a price for one from some of the members.........this will give you an idea of what is available and what it will cost.
Many of the members will have good feedback to give on other members they have bought from..reliable sources.

Once you have the info, possible shipping etc you can up the anti with the original supplier...get a refund and, possibly be closer to getting two nucs from forum members.

Just don't let the original supplier rip you off.

 

[Pennyfold Bees]

for the info on rights regarding distance buying, I'd not been fully aware of those. Given the supplier has advised that "I wait a week or so" and then send him more photos, I'd have thought it would mean those rights are extended in time. Still I'll check that out. My wife has read the feedback on the forum and she's furious with the supplier and wants rid of the bees. She bought me my brand new hive for my 40th birthday in March - which wasn't cheap but is great quality and friends and family bought the other equipment for me. Now my new hive has been infected with this poor quality product having paid a high quality price from what I thought would be the best supplier in the country. I am also very cross, but I'm torn as I don't want to start again.

This morning I found a bug in the sugar syrup, which I assume has most likely come from the bees, but perhaps could have crawled up the outside of the hive? Not sure how it would have got under the lid of the feeder which sits flush. I took a photo of it under my kids microscope, the legs looked too long for varroa mite. Unfortunately some legs got stuck underneath with the sticky syrup. I'll send the photo on to the SBI but as it is the w/e, any ideas what this is?

 

[Tabby15]

As RAb says it could limit your rights to leave it two weeks. I would check your distance rights and make sure your still on firm ground if you do decide to wait two weeks.

This, as with all things legal, can get a bit complicated. If they gave you notice for example intheir terms and conditions or via website of your right to cancel then you only have seven working days from date contract concluded, probably delivery date. If they didn't give you notice then you have 7 working days from the date they do.
However you still have other consumer rights such as getting goods fit for purpose, not being misrepresented to etc. in theory they don't have a time limit so if you want to make a go of them you need to be very clear to the supplier that you have not accepted the bees but are just trialling them. Could get messy.
Often best path is practical not legal. My advice would be to reread RAB post and decide what they are worth, make the seller an offer and if they don't accept or if you think it is not worth chancing just cancel the whole contract.

And they should pay to have them returned as they are faulty.

 

[Chris B]

What you have is not worthless but neither is it worth £120. It will take you some effort and expense to bring it up to standard, by which time the opportunity of a honey crop from it will have passed so you've lost out twice.

A distinct possibility is that it was a good nuc, got squeezed into a travel box and got left there too long inducing swarming behaviour.

I would demand a replacement nuc which you can then unite to this one. If they can't deliver within a week then full refund.

One point though - some have said how bad the frames are. They aren't great but neither are they shocking. I wouldn't be too concerned about them, just replace in rotation over time.

 

[Swarm]

I feel so sorry for you Pennyfold Bees, you sound so disappointed and it must have taken the shine off your new hobby for you and your family.

I agree with Chris B, the frames are old and messy but not the end of the world. Please don't think these bees have infected your new hive.

 

[Outlander]

Get a full refund and let them have the head ache of getting them back. Speak with your local swarm coordinator and ask if you can be put on the swarm list. Had you of lived in Norfolk I would have given you a large prim swarm for nothing, well maybe a £5 to £10 to cover fuel. And it would be good to know where you got them from so others are aware. Anyway still time to sort out a colony so good luck.

 

[Chris B]

It was hard to remove the frames and in cutting the brace comb off to fit it in the hive, it exposed some large larvae in the cut brace comb]

Just reread this and it confirms my earlier suspicion.
Brace comb with large larvae means they were in the travel box at least a week or so before you got them, and it proves the queen was present when the frames were put into the travel box by the original supplier (she laid after the brace comb was built). They swarmed out of the travel box so not only do you have no queen but a much reduced population too.
Did T's park them too long or was it the original producer? It doesn't really matter to you. It just reinforces the idea they aren't even worth £120 (more like £20 or £30 to be honest).

 

[BeeJayBee]

Just reread this and it confirms my earlier suspicion.

Pennyfold bees - have you read the FERA/Beebase leaflet "Guidance for the sale of honeybee nuclei"? https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadDocument.cfm?id=630

 

[For want of a better word]

for the info on rights regarding distance buying, I'd not been fully aware of those. Given the supplier has advised that "I wait a week or so" and then send him more photos, I'd have thought it would mean those rights are extended in time. Still I'll check that out. My wife has read the feedback on the forum and she's furious with the supplier and wants rid of the bees. She bought me my brand new hive for my 40th birthday in March - which wasn't cheap but is great quality and friends and family bought the other equipment for me. Now my new hive has been infected with this poor quality product having paid a high quality price from what I thought would be the best supplier in the country. I am also very cross, but I'm torn as I don't want to start again.

This morning I found a bug in the sugar syrup, which I assume has most likely come from the bees, but perhaps could have crawled up the outside of the hive? Not sure how it would have got under the lid of the feeder which sits flush. I took a photo of it under my kids microscope, the legs looked too long for varroa mite. Unfortunately some legs got stuck underneath with the sticky syrup. I'll send the photo on to the SBI but as it is the w/e, any ideas what this is?

I just hope and pray it is not a small hive beetle larvae..... it will get in sometime unless importation of honey bees is prohibited..... but not a varroa mite... once again in my own limited experience!

 

[yeogi75]

get a replacement as them frames are at least tree seasons old , which the bee breeder should have rotated on a yearly rotation , so would query there health , or if you keep them put into bait box as you will want to change them as soon as possible.

 

[theeggman]

There is reference to a supplier in post 29.
As far as I can see the OP has not named said supplier so please folks don't let's jump to incorrect conclusions.
Give the supplier a chance to sort this shambles out to the OP's satisfaction, if that does not happen then it may be time to name and shame.
I hasten to add that I have NO connections to any supplier it's just that the OP needs a clear run direct with the supplier with no side issues comeing up.

Tim.

 

[TOBY-3652]

Saying that they had subcontracted the source is no excuse.

You're not dealing with somebody by the name of William are you?

DONT THINK HESE CALLED WILLIAM BECAUSE YOU CERTAINLY WOULDNT OF GOT £120-00 OR EVEN £1.20

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

DONT THINK HESE CALLED WILLIAM BECAUSE YOU CERTAINLY WOULDNT OF GOT £120-00 OR EVEN £1.20

Or even a reply in the first instance!

 

[mbc]

I've just read through the thread and I would say steady on !
The frames arent really that bad. If there is still a laying queen then the nuc is a goer, the only reason there would have been queen cells is there was a delay between the bees being housed in the travelling box and being sent to the op. During this time the strong nuc - probably made overly strong in good faith to try and justify the outrageous price ! - built up quickly (showing a good worker population) and becvame constricted in the box so queen cells were made. Its quite possible that rehousing the nuc in a full size hive would have released them enough for the queen to get round the queencells and kill them and continue to head the nuc into full expansion quite happily, in which case the suppliers offer is quite reasonable, including the "report back" bit which suggests exceptional customer service and a continuing willingness to amicably resolve the situation( if Gill reads this, please send payment to : mbc, cantref gwaelod, bae ceredigion).
£240 is a bit steep though, but the op went into it with their eyes open.

 

[yeogi75]

ok maybe the frames are ok, I should have said foundation , could have change them with new foundation at least a year ago, because these may be in someone's hive for a couple of year before worked out, so sorry no way on that foundation just getting rid of junk frames saving on replacement foundation.

 

[theeggman]

mbc you're jumping to conclusions which may may not be right but let the OP and the supplier try to sort this out offline and get a result that both are happy with.

Tim

 

[TOBY-3652]

mbc you're jumping to conclusions which may may not be right but let the OP and the supplier try to sort this out offline and get a result that both are happy with.

Tim

 

[pargyle]

I've just read through the thread and I would say steady on !

The frames arent really that bad.

£240 is a bit steep though, but the op went into it with their eyes open.

OP is a new beekeeper:

SBI also observed:
- uncapped cells, indicating bald brood over the forming pupaes.
- wax moth damage on the combs
- varroa damage (cannibalism of pupae)
- the combs were very dirty, old combs
- a lot of propolis on the frame ends, which were well propolised into the travel box as well as brace comb.

Plus brood pattern is not good, comb is clearly well used and certainly some of the frames appear to have seen better days.

£240 less £120 ... still not good value in my book. Sorry MBC but for once I think you are off target.