Poly warning.

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Poly Hive

Queen Bee
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
14,097
Reaction score
402
Location
Scottish Borders
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
12 and 18 Nucs
Had a PM over night with some information about a type of national which is about to be launched. Seems the design involves an over hang of some sort, no more detail given than that, but I am told there are two issues with the unit, one is density is a bit light, and that the over hang is vulnerable to breaking in service and difficult to repair.

That is all I know and I pass it on in the hope of avoiding expensive errors.

PH
 
Hi Poly Hive, I'm new to this site and the world of beekeeping, I've joined my local bka and attending apiary meetings, reading books and looking in on this forum, but still can't decide on which hive to invest in. Almost definitely going down the poly route, and I thought my only decision was national or langstroth which I've been looking at on the MB site.
Your latest post seems to suggest the quality of these hives isn't all that it could be, so where else can I source a decent poly hive in UK?

Thanks

Dave
 
Sussex Bees,

I doubt that PH was claiming 'the quality of these hives isn't all that it could be'

PH has a thing about sw ienty and does not appear to have much, if any, experience with M*dern B**keeping products. I believe he has a dislike - not as such 'a quality' aspect - of the design (using plastic runners and having a lip-joint).

My experience with them (poly) is also limited, but I will say I checked out more than one source before buying my first poly nuc and found one, in particular, that was of low density (of those suppliers I checked out).

I went the P*radise F*rm route and have been perfectly happy with my choice (it was a compromise on format, but not on density/quality) and am intending trying the new 'National' format as soon as possible. I am fairly close to 100% that I will not find it lacking in quality, so no need to look elsewhere, IMO.

P*aynes now to a poly Langstroth, B**H*ve S*pplies do a 'larger than standard foot-print' poly in BBs format. WPF might do one in the distant future (if you are brave enough to pay now and perhaps get it sometime). It appears others are joining the sector too (see PH's post this am).

Regards, RAB
 
I am quite capable of answering for myself.

I do like Swienty poly yes as it is up to standard and just plain works. However there are other vendors to be considered.

I held back comment on the MB offering until I saw it for myself today. I do indeed not like it from a design POV, the over hang idea whilst offering some extra stability seems to me to be vulnerable to damage.

I queried this on the stand, and whilst they must have know who I was they were not keen to discuss it it seemed. They came out with some nonsense about not mixing timber with poly (rolls eyes here) so I left as that was just not true and they were telling the public this stuff. They maintained that the over hang is fine in service. I had a pm this weekend telling me that there are in service issues on this very point.

I have no financial relationship with anyone in beekeeping. I am very keen on poly and am equally keen that users or potential users get the best their hard earned money can buy.

I personally would not purchase this hive from MB. Nor would I buy the hollow plastic unit on sale today from that vendor. I am picky about my poly.

PH
 
I am quite capable of answering for myself.

And I am quite capable of giving my 'take' on it too. I am also very aware of your antipathy, of some sort, towards M/B or their products.

RAB
 
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They maintained that the over hang is fine in service. I had a pm this weekend telling me that there are in service issues on this very point. PH

Can you expand on this please as I though that they only went on sale yesterday
 
Looks like paynes Farm who have also supplied the WFB ones.

The Swienty nucs on display today at Stoneleigh look good but are expensive and no one is stocking them in the UK (wonder why they had them here then?)

As I posted in another thread, Swienty did say that Wynne Jones is shortly bringing in their national poly hive.

I have some MB nucs and they have been fine.
 
PH

You said in your first post

Seems the design involves an over hang of some sort, no more detail given than that, but I am told there are two issues with the unit, one is density is a bit light, and that the over hang is vulnerable to breaking in service and difficult to repair.

Yet the thread title is "Poly warning"
Now as you've had a chance to see one close up is the title of the thread still valid in your opinion and if so with what and why?
 
Mike a,

That post This am also said:

about to be launched

The M/B item was already launched yesterday. I took that as either another side swipe at something not even seen yet, or actually another product which is not yet on the market, but the thread was a good carrier of obscure information to (possibly) deceive those that did not read the post carefully.

I am still not sure of what is going on. Even the person making this supposed e-mail claim probably hadn't seen one either?

All very obscure. Sometimes it is better to wait and use facts, not fantasy?

Furthermore, if the unit were to be the paradise one, a claim that the denity is low needs to be substantiated as that could be libellous.

RAB
 
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We all know PH has no problem being painfully blunt at times, some times IMHO bordering on rude to some of the members posting but just seemed odd why be so coy on details given the title of the thread.
 
Thanks for the info everyone, very interesting.

The poly national from B**H*ve S*pplies looks good. Surely it makes more sense to match the internal measurements of the wooden version than the external, and they do a larger brood box which people seem to moving toward.

Has anybody used one?
 
Whatever the situtation, there is no point getting het up on a forum.

Personaly i think poly hive has inputted more valuable info (especially for newcomers like myself) into the forum than most. And it makes sense.

So whatever his views on a certain polystyrene hive, i for one will pay particular attention to whatever he writes.
 
Glad you enjoy my material MikeA.

Blunt and rude are not how I see it myself and if it bothers you then my style is easily avoided, there is an ignore function.

I am not in a position to quote my source, it is that simple and doe it really need spelling out?

PH
 
Sussex Bees'

Surely it makes more sense to match the internal measurements of the wooden version than the external

Not surely at all. It is always a compromise.

I looked at this version with some interest initially, but that interest waned rapidly when I ascertained the bee space arrangement. I am all top space and this kit is the more common 'bottom' variant. Beespace compatibility is not a particularly problematic issue and can be overcome, but with needing the right kit handy if mixing and matching boxes.

I looked at the consruction and it appears to be box jointed (I say appears because I have not seen one 'in the flesh') and that may not be as strong as the closed joint construction of the MB example. I do transport my hives at times, so that was a consideration.

Now to the footprint. Poly hives tend to be effectively larger than timber counterparts because the insulation afforded, by the typically 40mm thick walls (need that for strength of construction), is far superior to 18/19mm of wood. That means the brood is often found on the frame sides actually adjacent to the walls, which is not the case for a timber hive (witout extra insulation added) where the outermost frames are rarely used for brooding because of temperatures fluctuating and/or being too low.

That means a poly with ten frames is likely an easy equivalent of an eleven frame timber version. A 'National anything' with a deep brood is likely to need extra space with most bee strains these days, so the issue of being slightly smaller is fairly irrelevant to me. All my colonies are either on 14 x 12 (only, or with extra brooding space as required)

On the other hand, the overlap with a larger box and mixing with timber boxes will lead to other potential issues - getting them square, quickly and easily, if the larger box is above and having a 'water catching' ledge if below. Excluders may be another 'unique to the footprint size' issue
.
I am not sure about the issue of roofs and floors, but it would appear the standard roof could be used on the one, but certainly could not be on the larger footprint option.

There will be other considerations, I am sure. The above were far more than adequate for me to discount the B**hive S*pplies version as an option for my use, apart from the not unconsiderable financial advantages of the more competitively priced Paradise offering.

So, you see, 'surely' is not a word I could use in this context. Things are always a compromise, unless absolutely ideal - which does not happen often!

Regards, RAB
 
RAB,

It seems that most of your issues with this hive came from matching existing kit, a problem I don't have.

I agree the jointing system doesn't look as good, but would only make construction a little trickier. Once glued it should be strong enough.

The water ledge issue when using wooden supers is a very good point,(forgive my ignorance) but don't the little blighters seal all gaps up with propolis, will that stop water ingress?

The price for the empty hive does look a bit steep compared to the 'complete' hive price, Their standard jumbo 'complete', is only an extra £50 compared to empty. £50 for 44 frames and a QE sounds ok to me.

Dave

ps. Merylvingien, I have to agree with you. It seems both of these beeks can ruffle a few feathers with their straightforward responses, but their advice is spot on.
 
Thanks PeterS for the wynne jones tip, had a look at their website and eventually found their poly hives. Looks like they are waiting for stock.
I think I'll put off my hive decision until they are available.
 
There is a Swienty run imminent they told me yesterday. I imagine the Jones folks will be awaiting that delivery.

PH
 
Just for info the people who design and make the hives sold at the stand I was helping out on at Stoneleigh yesterday have now sold over one million poly hives in the last couple of years. You don't sell this many hives unless design, quality and price are spot on. I suspect they are probably now one of the largest, if not the largest, poly hive manufacturer in Europe. Existing orders will more than double this amount in 2011 - production capacity has now become a limiting factor with the presses running 24 hours a day.

The mixing of poly and wood on a hive is not something I recommend for long term use. The new National has been designed to be the same outside dimensions as a wooden National so being able to mix parts was seen as a requirement from the outset. However, to get the full benefit of poly it needs to used on the whole hive. Otherwise, it is like insulating the walls of your house and not bothering with any insulation in the attic. I recommend you mix wood and poly just for things like uniting colonies or doing a Bailey frame change but others may do things differently, it is no matter, each to their own way of beekeeping. Stick with what works for you if you know what you are doing.
 

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