Planning Permission advice

[enrico]

I have just tried to get planning to get an entrance into my field where I keep my bees. I had to get the land surveyed, then submit architects plans and then after all that they wanted a biodiversity report as I needed to take out fifty feet of brambles. In then end, having reached nearly ,two thousand pounds without doing any actual physical work on the land I gave up. Got some of the money back as the plans had never even got through the initial stage but...... Oh dear, all to take down a little bit of hedging that was on my land. Stupid or what!
E

 

[For want of a better word]

I currently have 11 hives on my two & half acre field with plans for a few more. It is a bind travelling backwards & forwards and am thinking of applying for permission to build a home on my land but its outside of the designated area for housing. Also to then manage the bees, honey extraction etc all on site. I am seeking guidance from an architect who has asked...

...could you get a letter from any bee organisation/official appreciating your need for a residence on site near your bees? Or if you know of any other cases where someone has done the same? Or simply that being near the bees is essential?'

Any suggestions on how I could gain some official support from somewhere?

Thanks, for any ideas.

Locally... between Callington and Liskeard... 2 acre field £40,000.... Pre plan* application for 40 colonies of imported honey bees for a queen growing... ( Occupants have no experience in beekeeping) a large bungalow and buildings for classrooms and tracter shed + pollytunnels 100 square meters of lavender and 6 manuka trees.
Roads sceptic tank... etc etc.
Started work without approval of preplan, moved 35ton digger onto site... ripped all hedges out dug large hole and demolished and buried old asbestos " cricket pavillion"... started to dig yet another hole for septic tank....
Locals horrified at mud on road and destruction and decimation of land... plus new huge gates and fence!

40 local residence*** petitioned Cornwall Council... who for the time being have put various STOP orders on any further work and I believe have ordered proper disposal of the asbestos.

The owners live up country and have a quallified architect/ planning advisor under contract.
Investment so far calculated at £50K+.... plus the original cost of the land.

* Master Beekeeper has to live on property throughout year as bees need constant attendance particularly in winter as hives need to have heaters put into them if it gets cold and fed if there is no food about or windy or raining and they can not get out of hives.

Bees will forage on lavender or fly 50m down hill to B****n Woods to forage for pollen which they bring back to the hive to eat.

( Seriously ... that is what the pre plan says!!)

*** one of my friends lives in the Hamlet.

Wish they were keeping Llamas!

Yeghes da

 

[oliver90owner]

Over thity years ago, the minimum was 20 acres before planning consent would even be considered for a domestic residence. A friend was attempting the feat with just about twenty acres with sheep in residence on the land. He likely eventually purchased an extra field adjacent to his property and managed to build. So long ago i can’t remember the outcome as i had already moved from the area by them.

An acre is just trying to ‘extract the urine’ of the planning regulations. Get real and follow the rules.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes..

I'll take your expert word on it.
I'm only an agricultural landowner, with many of my family also agricultural landowners
.......oh, and chair of the town council planning committee.

 

[Millet]

I'll take your expert word on it.
I'm only an agricultural landowner, with many of my family also agricultural landowners
.......oh, and chair of the town council planning committee.

Come to the North East it might open your eyes..

 

[Etton]

Very true
I own a piece of land and am currently looking at developing it. I work with architects and local planners everyday, so am lucky to know who is worth approaching. As with all areas some are okay, some are adequate and others really know their business.
Upshot is I have been advised to apply for outline planning using one set of guidance, if that fails, reapply using a second set. The difference in the approaches is one would allow for all open market, the other to provide ‘affordable’ housing.
As a bee farmer member , I did ask about building under ‘agricultural’ use and was advised that this approach is nowadays frowned upon after too many ‘farmers’ were only people with a few llamas! Even if granted, planning permission with an agricultural condition can come back and bite you as selling will have always this covenant
S

Thanks for all replies really useful. I know its a long shot but will try nonetheless on the needs of the growing apiary, bees are livestock after all.
I thought affordable homes might be a good strategy too (I could do with downsizing and more than one property could be profitable. I suggested this to my advisor who said...

'The term Affordable homes to the Council means something very different to the context which I think you are using it. I think you may be referring to low cost houses ie smaller homes which are a private sale but for a low house price. Affordable Homes are homes which are given over to a Registered Landlord for them to let to low income family and sometimes the elderly. If you apply to build these you would undoubtedly get permission but then you would have to give them to the Registered Landlord at cost.
So not a lot in it for you.'

 

[maddydog]

If you expand more than 11 on your two acres let us know if your yield per hive alters. Maybe the wild pollinator police will pay you a visit first....

 

[charlievictorbravo]

I have just tried to get planning to get an entrance into my field where I keep my bees. I had to get the land surveyed, then submit architects plans and then after all that they wanted a biodiversity report as I needed to take out fifty feet of brambles. In then end, having reached nearly ,two thousand pounds without doing any actual physical work on the land I gave up. Got some of the money back as the plans had never even got through the initial stage but...... Oh dear, all to take down a little bit of hedging that was on my land. Stupid or what!
E

Enrico, My recollection is that you need planning permission to create an entrance onto the highway only if the road is a classified road. If it's unclassified, you don't need planning permission for a new entrance but you may need to carry out any works on the highway to the highway authority's specification. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, the highway boundary is assumed to be the roadside brow of the ditch - i.e. the adjoining landowner owns the ditch.

A classified road is either one that is numbered (e.g. A374 or B3328) or classified unnumbered - you can get an idea by looking at an OS map but the highway authority will tell you. They cannot charge for this information - just ask to inspect their Section 36 list of highways maintainable at public expense (Section 36 of the Highways Act 1980, subsections 6 and 7). An unclassified road is anything else - for instance, most residential roads and some rural roads are unclassified. If you live on a residential estate road and want to create a new access across a footway, the highway authority may insist on carrying out the work itself as it will be responsible for future maintenance.

CVB

 

[Poly Hive]

My memory is probably wrong but I have a feeling that there was a discussion some years ago on pretty much the same topic.

In that discussion, bees were stated not to be agricultural creatures.

ITLD hopefully may comment.

PH

 

[enrico]

Yep, thanks for that, went through all that. It was classified and in a 30 mph speed limit. All I needed to do was to remove a bit of my own scruffy wild grown hedge and a bit of my bank either side to get the views. But before they even consider looking at plans you have to waste so much money on land and bio surveys that have no impact on the final outcome at all. I do understand why but I don't understand why people charge so much for a simple survey. I was part of the highways risk assessment team many years ago checking on entrances to make sure they were safe, how things have changed, no one can use common sense anymore. I know my entrance would have been ideally placed and I know I have no rare frogs in the undergrowth but I need an expert to tell the council so. Oh well, ironically it was to assist me getting easy access to my bees with a car and trailer, there are cheaper ways to do it although more labour intensive so I am sticking to that.
It is an art to make a simple thing so complicated.
Thanks for the info though
I have cut the hedge down anyway just to prove I can, might even lower the bank one day!!!!!! No one would ever know!
E

 

[charlievictorbravo]

I have cut the hedge down anyway just to prove I can, might even lower the bank one day!!!!!! No one would ever know!
E

Exactly what I'd do - there's more than one way of skinning a cat than ripping its guts out! Maybe create a pedestrian access that gets wider over time - I think the rules only apply to new vehicular accesses. Could take time through, getting the neighbours used to it.

CVB

 

[For want of a better word]

My memory is probably wrong but I have a feeling that there was a discussion some years ago on pretty much the same topic.

In that discussion, bees were stated not to be agricultural creatures.

ITLD hopefully may comment.

PH

May have different laws in Scotland?

The NFU Mutual Insurance, Classifies honeybees as Food Producing Stock.

Has implications for keeping bees on "Set Aside" land in England.

Nos da

 

[bontbee]

There are also Hedgerow Regulations - though from what you describe as brambles wouldn't qualify as a hedge for even the most assiduous LPA officer!

 

[DanBee]

I currently have 11 hives on my two & half acre field with plans for a few more. It is a bind travelling backwards & forwards and am thinking of applying for permission to build a home on my land but its outside of the designated area for housing. Also to then manage the bees, honey extraction etc all on site. I am seeking guidance from an architect who has asked...

You'd need to be looking at a minimum of 100 hives for it to be considered an agricultural business, what you're talking of is approached as a tied agricultural dwelling associated with a farm unit that needs close supervision. It's a non-starter with 11 hives.