Paynes Poly

[Jimmy]

I'm having thoughts about getting a few poly hives this winter to try out next year. I'd like to stick with the national cross section so I can continue to use my wooden supers, so as far as I can tell that means MB, Payne or Beehive Supplies.

James

Don't forget Swienty via Wynne Jones. They have the same external footprint as a wooden national, bottom bee space.
Also Lysons may be worth investigating although I notice that their UK agent, Abelo, are currently sold out.

 

[NoBBy]

[

Not me - bottom bee space for a start, so not compatible with my kit without a 'bee space eke' for the broods and probably a lot of swearing!


Regards, RAB

You haven't read the review properly, leave rails out and you have top bee space.

 

[oliver90owner]

Nobby

Not read any review, so not at all a case of not reading it properly. Where is it to be found, please?

I enquired nigh on a year ago, before the FAQ page was there. They told me they were bottom bee space.

Just like their faq page now. Quote:

Q. Are these hives bottom bee space?

A. Yes, the bee space in both super and brood chambers is at the bottom.


If they don't know, not sure how any potential purchaser is likely to find out in the normal line of searching. They lost a potential sale a year ago. Tough on them.

RAB

 

[itma]

Nobby

Not read any review, so not at all a case of not reading it properly. Where is it to be found, please?
...

Let me help - this very thread!

Ok review time!

These are my own photos of the product and my own thoughts. Don't kick me for spellings or bad English I have bashed this review up in 20 minuets ...

 

[Nic Rhodes]

Don't forget Swienty via Wynne Jones. They have the same external footprint as a wooden national, bottom bee space.
Also Lysons may be worth investigating although I notice that their UK agent, Abelo, are currently sold out.

Abelo has them still and is jobbing them off cheap as beespace is wrong, see ebay

 

[oliver90owner]

Let me help - this very thread!

Not read the post to which my reply referred then? The poster was enquiring about Beehive Supplies. Nothing to do with Pains at all. Sorry, but I do believe I am correct? No review? Faq is correct?

 

[itma]

Let me help - this very thread!

Not read the post to which my reply referred then? The poster was enquiring about Beehive Supplies. Nothing to do with Pains at all. Sorry, but I do believe I am correct? No review? Faq is correct?

Can't help with that one, which seems a bit of a rarity. I too would like to know about alternative poly 14x12's, including how your double-super works out.

I believe NoBBy was referring to winker's review of the Paynes product, (though I'm ready to be corrected as always), which you had previously dismissed as bottom beespace, and which (according to winker) is alterable to top beespace by the simple expedient of removing the rails. (Though I fear this may involve yet more propolis between bars and rebate.)

 

[Jimmy]

Abelo has them still and is jobbing them off cheap as beespace is wrong, see ebay

Hadn't seen that on ebay, was going off his own website.

As I understand his ebay listing, the design flaw is that it leaves 14mm vertically between frames between brood-super or super-super and 11mm between frame sides and brood/super side walls. If my interpretation of Dave Cushman's info is correct, anything more than 9mm leads to brace comb.

A shame, I hope Lyson are able to adapt their mould. For experienced hivemakers though it does seem a bizarre mistake to make, it's the kind of thing I'd do bodging together a hive out of wood offcuts

 

[Nic Rhodes]

I think one of the US bee magazines looked at a load of hives not so long ago(2008/9?, presumably Langstroths) and found none had the correct bee space so is much more common on hives than many would think. Might be the magazine Kim Flottum is editor for?

 

[Swarm]

(Though I fear this may involve yet more propolis between bars and rebate.)

This was a concern of mine with their poly nucs (no runner) People here have said they've had no such problem, whereas some of my hives have propolis pools between the lugs (wood with runner) It's nice to see the runner option in their hive.

My own take? A little disappointing about the small depressions but they are not as bad as made out, at least, not with mine.

They are located on the upper mating face, two are completely obscured by the upper box but the other two run into the bevelled area creating a gap, by no means a hole. I'm assuming the upper walls are bevelled to make lining up/water run off easier if mixing kit. Oversight in manufacture, will be sorted soon I expect and not something I'll lose sleep over.

BB to floor is neat with recess to suit poly or wood. I see no reason why the poly BB can't sit on another floor though, it's base is flat. There again the floor is a good one so I would use it. Mesh fit was perfect and a very solid varroa tray.

I didn't get a feeder, I don't use them. If feeding is required, the same course of action as for my current wooden hives: Empty super, cat litter tray with straw and syrup, CB (plastic cover), roof.

I liked the idea of same interior dimension as my current hives.

Don't be quick to write these off. I can't wait to try it out.

 

[oliver90owner]

James,

My reading of the pictures was that the sides appear to dovetail into each other.

You are correct. Found a pic that was a projection rather than a simple elevation. Def mitres. Not sure how that might affect a serious fall onto a corner.

Regards, RAB

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I've got a MB poly. I have a Paynes too. One more and I'll have the full set.
One of the two I have will probably be sold. I already have some WBC's and the rest Nationals, I don't want 2 flavours of poly hives too.

MB
The trouble with the MB poly is that it doesn't take a queen excluder properly as the rebate is 455mm not 460 so you need special queen excluders. (MB told me they cut theirs down to fit). I have made a crown-board for it with a hole so I could put a feeder on it. The bee space between top and bottom brood, if you go double brood, is under 4 mm so sliding a frame across the top brood chamber will crush bees wich is NOT a good design! As the hive is a VERY tight fit for 11 new frames, 10 frames plus a dummy will be required so it is very likely that you'll need to go double brood.... (I run my WBC's with 11 frames so these are even smaller). It's difficult to slide frames anyway as they are hard against the plastic frame runners - the hive isn't the right size. I like the idea of these hard runners but in practice the frames are flat on them so bees will get underneath and get crushed. If anyone decided to go brood and a half, the bee space between the super and the brood underneath is 12 mm - so more than a bee space. The MB hive looks nicer I suppose and the poly does seem to be harder. I don't like the rebate either. I suppose I could hack it off and then queen excluders would fit. I have a colony in one now.

Paynes
The Paynes one does seem to be softer although Roger Payne says that it is 100g/litre. Paynes are made in the UK if you are wearing your Union Jack underpants that's the one to get. The bee spaces are all Ok and you can use wooden parts with them. OK it will look a bit odd if you had a Paynes floor and a wooden brood with Paynes super on top but sometimes needs must and it would work. The slope around the edges of the Paynes boxes means that water running down the side of a smaller super will run away and not get into the hive. I don't have a feeder for mine.

The Paynes floor was OK for me. Some might not like the landing board - that's personal choice I guess and it might be cumbersome for lugging hives about if that's what you do. However the varroa floor is bigger and better than the MB which has a relatively small piece of plastic mesh with as much plastic as openings so some varroa won't fall through. There is no entrance block supplied with the Paynes floor although I can make one easily enough - some might not be able to brandish a saw in a wholly amateur fashion like I can! The MB hive has a bit of plastic that acts an an entrance reducer but it's still full-width. Rather than cut it I put tape along it to help keep wasps out this autumn.

Paynes frame runners just slot in. very simple. I will be able to put a frame down and won't crush bees underneath!

There are 4 floor alignment posts for the brood to locate on the floor by 4 corner holes. A super doesn't have the corresponding holes for the posts to go in so either I'll have to cut them in the supers or cut off the 4 posts that protrude from the floor which I don't think will be a problem. (I'm an under-super 'keeper in winter).

Mouding/demounding marks are not a problem on mine although they are visible. If de-moulding marks are very deep I suggest Paynes are informed and they can be sent back to the manufacturer.

In summary - and I may find other points not covered by the above so reserve the right to change my mind (!) if the MB ones were the right size and I could mix and match with wooden Nationals I would probably prefer them (They lift easier with the handle holes they have too).

I really need to run the hives for a season to comment fully.

 

[JamezF]

That's very useful information. Thank you.

I think it means I shan't try the MB one. I'd prefer not to cut down QXes and have to manage two different sets of kit.

James

 

[Patrick1]

I have used styrene hives for about 7 years, not this style. They have some + & - but the big thing is don’t mix with broad boxes with wooden supers the wind and rain will get in, cleaning is a bit of a problem i haven’t found a way of getting the propolis out without hacking at the styrene. Advantage, the spring build up seems to be quicker. Like most things you get what you pay for.

 

[Finman]

cleaning is a bit of a problem i haven’t found a way of getting the propolis out without hacking at the styrene.

soaking into hot lye water cleans resins and wax. You need a wide shallow container that you get one side by one under water. Lye is 3 - 5%. Then brush a little for example with car brush. Minus is that it dilutes some paint too. But however, it is sterilized too from mold and diseases.

 

[drstitson]

MB do state that the hive is a 10 framer BUT given that you'll brood across all 10 to the walls you don't actually loose brood area.

 

[Hivemaker.]

MB do state that the hive is a 10 framer BUT given that you'll brood across all 10 to the walls you don't actually loose brood area.

My bees brood across 11 frames,or even 12,right to the outside.

 

[Swarm]

I liked the idea of the internal dimension being the same rather than external, the extra room can only be a bonus and wooden boxes will mix well.

 

[Finman]

.
Come on guys! Use hives as it is good.

10 of 11 frames, no diffence. You hives have in summer 50-80 frames. Use them if 11 is not right.
I have 30 frames for frood, but they use max 15 frames.

Beekeeping cannot be so accurate what you write. If the bee gap is 4 mm, of course it is too small.
Queens will be squeezed. Frames are not so straigt that t is everywhere 4 mm. It may be 1 mm or zero. Use a frame which add space. Frames are often twisted and resin makes top bar higher that dimensions tell.

Take the runner off if it is to high.

If the box is too wide to 10 frames add something to make it proper.

Frames have resins in shoulders and it makes tight the frames even if the spae have extra 10 mm for bees.

Use table saw and goood glue.

.

 

[Swarm]

I'm happy Finman, honestly.
There are some things here and there, but are easily dealt with. Entrance block, Hebeegeebee has already found the solution, a piece of wood. My comment about the internal dimension was just that any wooden supers would match with the poly. I can only imagine some sort of 'ledge' inside where the dimensions don't match?

I haven't tried poly before and this hive from p@ynes looks very nice. I am just painting it (and then I have a long wait) and can't wait to see how the bees do in it next year.