Paynes Poly

[PBee]

Just be really really careful regarding compatibility. Some makes do not marry well with other makes, especially with regards to the bee space. MOST makes are simple top bee space versions, really just a fat walled version of the wooden hive, and as you progress you can shop around knowing that there is a choice of supplier.

Some makers do special variants, and half bee space top and bottom was one I saw in Denmark recently supplied from Finland and the buyer was not a happy bunny as he did not know that was what was going to arrive and it was giving him a lot of issues, especially as his lids then crushed things on the topbars. I understand Paradise honey DO supply standard and special versions, or at least used to. Just be sure you get what you want. Apart from that they are a quality maker.

Thanks for the heads up. I now always order samples before I buy just in case and the ones I received have the correct top bee space. The sample frames from paradise though are not standard and have thicker lugs (13mm) than normal (the top bar is a uniform depth all the way across) which if used with standard boxes leave only 3mm space at the top and 3mm at the bottom. I wonder could this be where the 1/2 bee space problem arose?

 

[Into the lions den]

The sample frames from paradise though are not standard and have thicker lugs (13mm) than normal (the top bar is a uniform depth all the way across)

I have seen such frames, of relatively crude construction, in service in Dadant Blatt hives in France and Italy and especially (albeit in Langstroth) in Spain, sitting mixed up in boxes with frames with conventionally fined down lugs. Meant they sat with the upper surfaces at different heights. It was a total dogs breakfast.

I wonder could this be where the 1/2 bee space problem arose?

Not really, as these were normal frames and the half and half was already there. I suppose it just COULD have been designed to be a bottom bee space box with these using these thick lugged frames, but given the fact that that format is unusual, and the frame itself is not especially rare, I suspect its just a fluke.

..

 

[Finman]

.
Sadly quality of frames varies too much. Knots are usual problem.
The quality of tree material is one. Internal curving tendency of wood is one.
These make frames to twist inside the the hive.

Too tight dimensions is a nuisance. If the parts are properly loose, you greese join surfaces with polyurethane glue and drop parts together. When glue has hardened, it is quick to hit nails with electrict nailer.

You may get right angle from foundation and melted wire will fix it.

Oh boy! If you mix material of different pruducers, you are in troubles.

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

some frame mistakes are better to repair with table saw than spoil the day with swearing.
You may even make medium frames from langstroths.

. Good frames can be reused 30-40 years.

.

 

[RoofTops]

The sample frames from paradise though are not standard and have thicker lugs (13mm) than normal (the top bar is a uniform depth all the way across) which if used with standard boxes leave only 3mm space at the top and 3mm at the bottom.

I have had frames from Swienty designed the same way. If every frame in the hive is the same it works but I agree that mixing them does give rise to problems.

However, the PH frames (don't know where they get them from but probably not Finland) are very cleverly designed in that they only use two horizontal wires with the foundation supported by grooves in the top and bottom bars. So the sheet of foundation is supported at 4 points but with only two wires.

At PH they have a framing rig which takes the frame and with a little cam bends the side bars inwards a little. The wire is then strung through the 4 holes, then wrapped round a nail which is then driven into the wood. The cam is then released and the side bars tighten the wire as they straighten. Clever and quick when you have 3,000 hives to make frames for.

 

[Into the lions den]

At PH they have a framing rig which takes the frame and with a little cam bends the side bars inwards a little. The wire is then strung through the 4 holes, then wrapped round a nail which is then driven into the wood. The cam is then released and the side bars tighten the wire as they straighten. Clever and quick when you have 3,000 hives to make frames for.

Thats known as a Canadian wiring board, as I understand that , and the US northern states, is where they originate from. Apparently over there they are a ubiquitous piece of kit. We have four of them and my son has made several for other people too.

I guess from your description you could say our combs are, or at least could be, supported at levels. We have tried the two or three wire styles but they do not stand up in heather extracting. Frames as you say grooved top and bottom, but we reverted back to the 4 wires due to breakages in extracting with only two.

Eventually we realised that having the wax into both top and bottom grooves was an issue as well, and today we get it mage short sized for us so it still goes into the top but is a couple of cells short of the bottom bars. This way as the wax 'relaxes' in the heat of the hive it stays dead flat and the bees then attach it themselves as they wish. Might be surprising, but this results in a stronger flatter comb than running the wax right into the bottom groove.

Two wires is a bit quicker and easier though, but its all a front end saving, no difference later in the life of the frame.