Paynes Poly

[Sussex Bees]

The actual opening isn't much larger than a conventional national.

 

[itma]

I have a couple of the Beehive Supplies hives which are sitting along side a cedar national, I didn't vote in the poll so there are others out there.
... I prefer handling the poly and the bees seem happy enough.

And I should have said earlier, many thanks for your response and pictures. I'm looking for a poly 14x12 route and am weighing these against the (cheaper) Pains product.

 

[Sussex Bees]

I haven't seen the pains poly yet so I can't compare, but I'm happy with their poly nucs.

 

[oliver90owner]

Re - Beehive Supplies. Their pricing structure is poor.

They include shipping for all items over £50 - although shipping may appear 'free', it is certainly being paid for, by the purchaser (in the listed price).

Buying multiple units, therefore, is costing multiple shipping fees and we all know that shipping costs do not necessarily double if you buy two items, or triple if you buy three, etc.

I did consider them but wanted top bee space (and compatibility with my roofs, in particular). They look sturdy enough and will do the job, but I don't glue my boxes together so they may be dismantled (for 'exceptionally' severe sterilisation, per eg) should it ever be required.


Overall they look like, to me (not actually seen one 'in the flesh'), a better item than the Pa*nes offering but at a considerable cost disadvantage. A shame really, that. We need more competition to drive down the unit costs (to us), as poly hive sales increase.

RAB

 

[Finman]

We need more competition to drive down the unit costs (to us), as poly hive sales increase.

RAB

In Finland Langstroth poly box = 13,5 £ in
in UK .................................. 21 £ difference is 55%

Lg frames 100% more expencive.

 

[Poly Hive]

To the best of my ken there is no such thing as a 14 x 12 in poly and given the cost of moulds I suspect it may never happen.

The answer though is in your own hands. Chop a super to suit and biscuit joint it to a brood and lo.......

As for price I hope to see them come down as volumes increase. Lets try and avoid the "treasure island" mind set of the car makers... was it BMW or Volks that showed us such contempt?

PH

 

[itma]

To the best of my ken there is no such thing as a 14 x 12 in poly and given the cost of moulds I suspect it may never happen.

Offered by Payn*s and Beehive Supplies. Any others?

 

[Hebeegeebee]

****** do a 14 x 12 poly.
The above word is p-a-y-n-e-s.

 

[oliver90owner]

difference is 55%

A simplistic overview. There are likely different taxation regimes - businesses (and, therefore, the end user) are likely severely overloaded with taxation in the UK, Most Langstroth boxes have additional importational costs, and taxes on entry, and the extra 'middle-men' all take their 'rake-off'. You may have noticed that the UK is an island, so delivery routes are perhaps more complex.

Little surprise the costs are different. We are also talking National polyhives above - a minor fraction of the world market compared to Langstroth, I would think. although your example is like-for-like.

All in all, I would expect to pay a little more for a better quality product, but that does not always apply, with better (for me) quality items of finishing up at a more competitive price.

Beehives are not the only thing we need to take account of, when comparing cost of living in the two places, but generally the concept of 'rip-off UK' is accepted as a facet of life here.

 

[oliver90owner]

To the best of my ken there is no such thing as a 14 x 12 in poly and given the cost of moulds I suspect it may never happen.


Apart from Hebeegeebee' post, there is the B**hive S*pplies example. So it has already happened, at least more than a year ago.

 

[Finman]

difference is 55%

A simplistic overview. There are likely different taxation regimes -.

You are simple yourself.

Should I offer you again a University study about prices?

You speak again your owns. The prices are customer prices. Nothing to do with any taxation.

Like in Russia gasolin is half price compered to Finnish gasolin. What ever, it is customer price.

Come to buy it here. So you see.

 

[Finman]

difference is 55%

Beehives are not the only thing we need to take account of,.

What else? Strange man. Price of propel on head?

 

[RoofTops]

If you take hot water, put lye 3% there and then brush the surfaces. Contaminant will be loosen easily and all surfaces will be sterilized.

Any idea of the optimum water temperature? - I am buying a disinfection tank from C. Fritz which has a heating element/thermostat.

Going back a few pages this question but I am not sure anyone tried answering it.

I have used hand hot (about 40C) caustic soda solutions (lye) to clean poly hives and it is very effective, rapidly removing propolis, but hot caustic soda will strip off the paint from the hive if you leave it in too long and the fumes rising up from a hot solution are unpleasant. You won't notice it at first but your face will probably be a bit pink the next day if you spend too long leaning over the solution.

I would be very cautious of using a solution hotter than about 40C and even then you must wear a big plastic apron, elbow length rubber gloves (both from farm supply shops) and ideally a full face mask (sometimes called a brow guard) in case of splashes. Also, of course, avoid leaning over the solution.

Buckfast Abbey used to have a tank of very hot cautic soda into which they dipped old frames. They came out looking like new so if you have a tank with a heater after cleaning poly hives on the "cool wash" setting, you could crank up the temperature and do your frames.

A typical face shield is shown below plus a Farmers Chemical Spray mask with inorganic filters. Not cheap but probably a wise purchase.

 

[Finman]

, but hot caustic soda will strip off the paint from the hive if you leave it in too long .

Cold caustic soda is used to break/clean old paint surface when you paint again wood. Yes it wash paint off too.

 

[Finman]

difference is 55%

A simplistic overview. There are likely different taxation regimes - businesses (and, therefore, the end user) are likely severely overloaded with taxation in the UK, Most Langstroth boxes have additional importational costs, and taxes on entry, and the extra 'middle-men' all take their 'rake-off'.


..

You may have noticed that the UK is an island, so delivery routes are perhaps more complex..

In Finland normal VAT is 23%
in UK 20%


It is not island any more, you wise guy. Wake up!!!!
Propably you make your own polyboxes there.

Polystyrene is air. To transport air is not good business. Every country have polystyrene factories. You just make a deal. I suppose that patents are allready old because every country makes same kind of boxes.

ISLAND

- You have a busiest airport in the world.
- How many ferries go daily to England and Scotland
- railway tunnel

- Your country is full of harbours.

- You know how logistics from cheap countries plays, UK was first place to move industry to cheap production countries.

- Marine transport is the cheapest in the wold. You may make the stuff in China and transport it very cheaply.

 

[PBee]

Thanks for that Rooftops. From the sound of it I may try to engineer some sort of hood with extractor fan set up for use with lye. This is the type of information that should possibly be stickied for health and safety reasons!
I have in the past boiled frames in washing soda (Na2CO3) to remove wax and propolis. Would it be a safer alternative to caustic soda or is it less effective at the lower temperatures required for Polystyrene?

 

[Poly Hive]

If you are sterilizing for disease then the info in the DEFRA pamphlet is good.

Further to my mind why use heat and incur cost when cold is good and safer?

PH

 

[Finman]

I have in the past boiled frames in washing soda

temperatures required for Polystyrene?

These two cases are very different. It depends what are you doing: washing poo, sterilize merely, loosen wax and mold ....
Polyboxes are never so dirty as used frames. Far from that.

Our mothers washed white linen with lye and hot water. I never saw mask or what ever on her. She never hurt herself.

Too much is too too much. ( i did not say *.*)

Look, I have had poly boxes 24 years... where heck is my safe glasses...

.My pills, ....

 

[oliver90owner]

Finmam. Thankyou for your unwarranted outbursts. Perhaps you know of a UK manufacture of Langstroth brood boxes? I happen to think they are all imported, but I await your obviously better knowledge of this. That means extra expense, extra middlemen and a business structure to support in the UK. I await your response, unless all you can offer is more hot air, as I believe that is the truth of it.

It all adds to the cost. I would be very stupid to come to Finland to buy a single brood box to take home with me. I agreed that it is rip-off Britain, but some of that extra is accountable for.

Further, if you think delivery to the UK by airfreight is an economic option, I happen to think you live in cloud cuckoo land. I wonder how you think these UK businesses avoid UK taxation - that is both local and national taxes? Please tell these people how and our prices would fall.

By the way, the cost differential weuld be a saving of 36%, much less than your larger figure quoted, so you see it rather depends on who looks at the difference.

100*13.5/21 = 64%, therefore your saving is 100 - 64 = 36%. so you actually only pay about 1/3 less. Remember, there is nearly always more than one way to compare.

 

[Into the lions den]

Every country have polystyrene factories. You just make a deal. I suppose that patents are allready old because every country makes same kind of boxes.

Yes, every country has polystyrene factories......well any sizeable one anyway.

BUT

Not all countries have factories than can produce the boxes by the best methods (there are various methods) at 100g/l or over density. The best made boxes I have seen have been from either Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Germany, Portugal, or Canada.

Still not seen a UK made box that is satisfactory from my point of view, BUT............there are always BUTs...................I have never had a box of the brand suggested at by the OP in my hand to feel and check. I explored bring a mould over and making the boxes here to save carriage, but the factories did not actually want to do the high density as their machinery was only efficient at up to 40g/l.

Not even all 100g boxes are the same, some do not have very effective bonding of the beads and can seem a little soft, and bead size also varies. The best ones have a surface that is smooth and almost shiny it is so flat.............but that is taken almost to excess with the cast versions, where the outside seems very hard, but the interior can be poorly bonded.

The idea that boxes MUST be 100g/l to be satisfactory is generally safe, but you can do them at 80g with the best processes and they are OK. Our first major poly unit was all 80g boxes from Sweden and no issues after 12 years. However, some of the other processes are only truly robust at 120g or even 140g.